Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Shooting - Reloading Forum' started by Chesapeakecody, Aug 13, 2019.
Good to know! Thanks for the tip.
Brandon and the other guy own their own manufacturing company. They make the shells out of the back of their own factory.
Fine and dandy like I had stated I'm not knocking the kids company at all, anybody who wants to buy them be my guest.
I have shot Lead shot 12ga loads from the major shell makers in sub zero conditions hunting chukar. They are about the same as the 1 1/4oz shows. Even get bloopers on occasion. Some of the commercial powder is just junk. Was my thought. If you shot the 3" lead shells with 1 5/8-1 7/8 on subzero coyote hunts. They do not act the same. My though is the cheap powder works better with higher pressure.
Ball powders by design usually don't work well in cold weather, just the nature of the beast.
In his book Modern Waterfowl Guns and Gunning, which is dated now but a good read for anyone who hunts ducks or geese, author Don Zutz had explained this and to prove it Winchester was kind enough to do cold soak tests for him in their lab using his loads. This was when Winchester owned St marks powder before the sale to General Dynamics.
Here's the load tested
Winchester CF 2 3/4" hull
Winchester 209 primer
33 grains Winchester 540 ball powder
Winchester WAAF114 wad
1 1/4 oz lead shot
Results at 70 degrees F - pressure 10975 psi, velocity 1322 fps
Results at O degrees F - pressure 9375 psi, velocity 1235 fps
velocity loss 87 fps, pressure loss 1600 psi which by comparison to some other loads that use Ball Powders isn't that bad
I also confirmed this with Hodgdon, Mike from Hodgdon told me a drop of 100 fps I cold weather vs warm with most ball powders is not uncommon with many ball powder loads showing even higher velocity and pressure losses.
This is why Alliant came out with the 380 series of powders, we can buy it as STEEL for reloading purposes, commercial shell makers have many more 380 series powders to chose from.
Alliant made STEEL and the 380 series powders specifically to perform even in the coldest weather conditions. As I stated most of the loads in the manual use STEEL in the recipes and I got 10 fps or less velocity loss from warm to cold weather testing.
If you really wanted to know that is...
Its easy to change powder and improve that cold performance if needed, this is their opening product, maybe -10f performance wasnt their highest goal of 20 competing things. It is absolutely meaningless and worthless to me personally.
As this is the only manufacturer to include test results, they are specifically NOT BSing the customer but doing more than any other seller in the universe to give real info. There is no actual info on other cold soak results, not enough to bad mouth these guys at least, without specific nums and without someone signing their name and reputation to a SAAMI compliant test cert, with saami compliant test equip and procedures, no one else has done it... so talking up other notional shells or talking these down, when they are the only single data point there is, is both silly and ungenerous. We have zero idea how other competing bismuth shells actually perform at -10f, zero.
I will never shoot a duck shell at -10f, likely it will be 32f to 95f. These look great for my use. Also upland use. Gualandi make great wads, and nothing special is needed for bismuth, you can use normal lead components.
Lastly, every ammo maker changes their powders around according to test results, availability, and cost, we accept that from everyone else...these guys are opening business with a product that has decent numbers and there is every reason to expect they will continue testing and tweak powders and primers like everyone else does, as they get the company profitable.
Talk of funding sources, parents money, calling a grown man a kid, are kind of attacking the man, like attacking Steve Jobs for starting Apple with parents money in his garage... Every company is started by some real person at some point, and they all gets funds from relatives and friends, and they all improve product if they stay in biz.
Unknown guys call me all the time and try to tell me what to do with my money, how to invest, what I'm doing wrong...I hang up on them, and so do you. Of course Boss folks arent going to listen to some random internet dude with no $$ or risk in their venture telling them what stupid whippersnapper kids they are.
Not intending to offend you Joe, but these guys have all the signs of an honest, responsive company with a solid honest product that will help many folks, at a good price. I want them to get a fair hearing.
Some of us already know what the capabilities of shooting Bismuth is , make no missake about it , it's not as good as HW 13 or any of the higher density
loads offered . As we hunt with Steel Shot , even premium Steel Shot loads , there's a difference that only being successful hunting can show ! With Bismuth
being the next step-up from 7.8 g/cc Steel Shot , Bismuth at 9.6 g/cc which is about halfway to Lead shots 11.2 g/cc density . The biggest advantage of
Bismuth being , it can be shot through tight fixed choked guns . Even with the New Boss loads with a plated Copper Coating , this coating could be a little
advantage in its aerodynamic abilities but time will tell , just how much ?
One concern one might have could be ,if , you don't clean your birds soon after a days hunt ,copper could leave some (not So Pleasing) Green wound
channels in the flesh of your birds ? Maybe ! As plain old Bismuth doesn't have that problem .
Man I really appreciate all of your input! I have learned a lot from reading. I think these guys are going to great things . They aren't even a year old yet and they are doing great things. I look forward to seeing what they do with their company!
Copy all Joe. I'd guess these guys will try various powder and work on that cold performance once their books start balancing. Including that sheet of test specs just seems so aligned with what we are always hoping manufacturers would do...and so opposite to EMI HeviShot methods. So I'm rooting for them, and hoping they remain open to improving the product. Your post with nums on fps loss in cold is interesting. Got me thinking... I can't .really see.a.downside to asteel or other cold ignoring powders for these bismuth loads. So the inside story would be interesting on what drove that load. I could certainly see it being a guy like me just not placing a high priority on it. I wonder what 32f performance would be.
Well I only had a chance to put two rounds on paper before the rains ran me away. Didn’t matter, left my M and F chokes at home anyway so tightest thing I had was a Carlson LM. Shot from 35 instead of 40. Both patterns had a large hole near the middle areas but overall coverage wasn’t bad, especially with the second round. Obviously need more testing before gleaning any opinion. I’ll post pics tomorrow.