Did you see the article in the Demazet today?

Everyone seems in agreement that AGFC is staffed by a bunch of morons that are totally mishandling this woodpecker deal. What would you do. Seriously. If you were in the place of the AGFC people running Dagmar, what would you do? Would you ban the busloads of birders? Would you restrict them to certain areas? I think that they're going in the right direction by at least trying to direct the out of town birder types into the same areas rather than having them wonder all over creation (though some will anyway). You can just give up on the idea of "WE bought the duck stamps, WE were here first" argument. It's public land, regardless of how it was purchased, and it is open to all of the public, not just duck hunters. I'm the last person that wants to see a purple kayak come floating through my decoys at sunrise, but what's the solution? They technically have as much right to be there as me. What would you suggest AGFC do? Everyone seems to have a gripe, but offer no solutions. I do think it's wrong to allow birders to access areas that duck hunters can't. However, I see no better solution at this time to the overcrowding and birder/hunter conflict problems than to try to direct all the casual large groups of birders to several marked areas (preferably away from traditional heavy hunting areas). I don't think any of us would be doing much better of a job at solving this delima. And no, banning bird watchers, shooting bird watchers or tying them up to a tupelo are not a real world solutions. Now back to your regularly scheduled griping.

 

Keith - I sent the following email below to Mr. Henderson and he forwarded the email on to someone else who replied. I got a very cordial email with a lot of informaiton (including the hint that there was "proof" the public had not seen, which makes no sense to hide "proof of the existence" of a rather useless bird??), but the simple question I asked was not answered. I responded back, but the question still has not been answered.

Perhaps you could help.


******ORIGINAL EMAIL**********************************

I do have one more question.

How long will the AGFC continue to support the woodpecker hoax (forgive my negativism), without someone actually providing proof positive that the bird exists?
(Most folks do not agree that the blurry video and the sound recordings are proof positive.)


******SECOND EMAIL**********************************

I really appreciate all this information.

I have seen and heard all the evidence. If there is something that has not been released to the public, why no do that right now and dispel all disbelief? As amazing as it may sound, many folks including other ornithologists believe there is not enough evidence to verify the birds’ existence.
Yes, two scientists who are now making a lot of money over this claim to have seen the bird. The great bird watchers they are though, they couldn’t get a photo. They could be honest and really think they saw the bird, they could have done it for the money, or they could have done it knowing that it would at least strongly curtail hunting if not have it closed in this area. Only time will reveal their motivation.

I don’t want to start an email war here. I asked a simple question that was not answered and that’s all I was looking for. There is a lot of money being poured into this to recover a bird no one can even find, to recover. Look at how many people are in those woods on a daily basis now looking for this bird, yet they cannot find him. How long will this be allowed to go on without someone bringing a photo to the table that relinquishes all doubt? Are we going to keep going for the next 100 years based only on what we have now? At what point will we say either there was no bird, or the one bird is now gone?

At some point there has to be a responsibility check placed on the money being spent. I just want to know what that timeframe is.

sw

 

Schedule duck hunters from early am to 12 noon. Birders from 1pm to 5 pm.

 

PB Gaddy, Why is the solution to the problem so complex? Just leave it like it was last year, and the year before that, and the years before that! No one has said that the birders don't have a right to enter the WMA for their own agenda. As for me, it is their for all to use, but if all are to use it, then all need to follow the same rules.

As for the question of what would one do with the bus loads of people who are coming, Well who is bringing in bus loads of people & for what purpose? If a group of regular people want to rent a bus & drive all the way here to explore for Woody on their own, so be it! It is no differant than 30 of us all hooking up & going some where else to hunt. We do it on ouw own accord. But if you are worried about having to cater to the bus loads of people being brought in to the area by the Private Commercial Guiding outfits, then why is that your problem & ours to boot? It looks like you are welcoming this so called problem that should not even be a problem for anyone. Here we are back to the original issue that caused a band on Duck Guides. Having to worry about all the crowds that it caused. But now, it is not the Game & Fish position to deal with this issue of Private Commericialization in the same manner as they did before, but in this case they are not even looking at stopping the issue but they are catering to it. This is what floors me. The very same issue in both cases, but one group got told no & now the other group is being told yes, and we will help you also!

You wanted a solution, well here it is! Leave the WMA as it has been in the past. Let ALL user use the WMA on their own merits just like it has been for years. Do NOT allow Private Commercial Birder Guiding to take place on the WMA. Go ahead & leave in place the things that are allready done for the birders to us on an individual basis when they came. And make the rules of the area apply to all, hunters & birders alike!

Not that hard of an issue to handle right now. No Big Bus load of people being brought in by Commercial Birder Groups because that should not be allowed in the first place, everyone has use to the WMA on their own merits & abilities, all the rules apply to everyone the same, & if their is a problem, it is just because one user didn't like what another user did because they did it own their own, not because a guide told them to do it!

Crowds are something we are use to on WMA's these days. We deal with them every season. But these are people that came to use the areas by their own merits. Thats the way it has been in the past & the solution for the future as it stands right now is leave it that way! Everyone standing on their own two feet without the assistance of outside professional help on public ground.


If this is not a usable solution, then you most likely are not really looking for one in the first place!

 

AGFC Keith,

You got some major cajones loggin' on here and lettin' the group take shots at ya. I knew you in an earlier life. We traveled to a couple of public meetings together in your last job.

As long as GF Commission remembers that there's still bucks involved in duck huntin' we should be ok regarding woodpecker. If they decide the birder bucks are in greater supply and easier to pick, then we're in trouble.

 

where you been? that's exactly what they've done. and worse.



old

 

Longstory,
I agree that the ban on commercial activities should apply to everyone equally. Birders should not have special access to rest areas. I don't have a problem with identifying specific places to try to concentrate the birders so that they clash with hunters as little as possible. It sucks if that spot happens to be the one that you hunt or the access that you put in at. I just don't see any way around some inevitable conflicts between hunters and bird watchers. I'd rather this happen in a few specific spots rather than all over the refuge and wmas. I don't think it's because all bird watchers are anti-hunter (many I know are hunters), but that the one's from out of state aren't used to the chaos associated with duck hunting in Arkansas. I can just see the scene when a group of birders in chartruese kayaks paddles into a decoy spread on the Cache River while ducks flare in all directions. Some of those people will be oblivious to what they are doing and will not understand why they are cussed and pelted with pellets. The end result is that duck hunters will come out looking like the bad guys. I just hope the hunters out there can show some restraint this first year until things settle down some. I know we're all used to dealing with a-holes while hunting (i.e. each other), so I think we can do it.

 

What just about anyone who's ever been around such a scenario will tell you is as soon as the press puts a story like that one out, you will have anti-hunters and animal rights activists seizing the opportunity to engage in such an activity to force a conflict with hunters. We have more than enough of those same tree-hugging and owl-worshipping perverts in the NW United States and here in Alaska, and they try and do this stuff to enact whatever agendas they can.

I know enough hot-headed hunters from the Cache River area who would start putting pellets on those folks, and all that sort of thing does is play right into the anti crowd's hands.

 

well, it looks like he's lost his cajones. i had a special question and special request to ask of the ark woody peckerwood and fish commission man.



old