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Discussion in 'Shooting - Reloading Forum' started by jbrown, Dec 20, 2019.
I think Bang would more than hold his own shooting live birds against most on this board.
Not saying that you have birds that work farther out, but that the skills to kill efficiently , for most of us, including myself, is not there in order to kill the birds efficiently , regardless of how well a load/gun patterns at those distances.
I can remember in my youth shooting at bills moving downwind on a 30-40 mph north wind crossing our blocks, but rafting out on the open water, so we only had shooting at these birds. The birds were moving at estimated 60-65 mph when we were shooting at them. 10-12 body length leads (approx 17-20 feet) was needed to hit these birds. With big flocks, I would be trying to hit the lead bird, but the one 4-5 back was falling out of the flock. Lesson learned. Kept increasing my lead until I was hitting the birds I was shooting at. We called them "cadillac" leads, you would have to be so far in front of them. This was back in the lead reloading days, and we were using #2 or #3 lead, buffered with grex, at 1330 fps 1 3/8 oz plated hard shot. We were shooting out to 60 yds , which was the back end of the decoys from the shoreline. The birds at 40 yds still needed good 9-10 foot leads to hit them consistently, but how many guys would actually throw the gun out 10 feet in front of a duck or goose? Probably 99% miss those shots behind the bird. If you can't hit the birds consistently at a given distance, then we have no business shooting at those ranges.
Having watched a group of hunters shoot Roster's crosser test, I can attest that NONE of them could hit a 30 yard crosser with 6 of 8 consistency.
Yes most hunters never shoot anything but under 30 yard birds. With no experience they have poor shooting success at a crossing bird. Here most of our birds are crossing shots. Give us them 30 yard shots and we miss often. They are too close. The types of shots we rarely get.
There's a time and Place for long shots and it's knowing your loads ability to perform at that distance ! Trigger time improves ones ability whether it's at
Clay targets or live birds but , actually , live birds with their ability to flying Fast or slow and reccognizing that speed along with the distance , takes experience !
Another thing ones needs to understand at 50 yds plus is the drop of the pattern , especially with steel shot at angled distances . Seeing the LINE of flight and
Matching the birds speed is half of the equation as the forward allowance and follow-through really decides if you're successful or not ! Consistency in ones
mount trumps ALL !
Patterning my pass shooting reloads, I notice the pattern is centered at 50 yards. The 10ga is about 60-40 at 40 yards. Probably 40-60 at 55-60 on a guess.
Good Guess , mine too with larger size shot !
It's the Higher Density that extends my ability , though !
A thirty yard crossing duck is considered a chip shot by most hunters (although I have missed a couple this season)... Big difference between shooting a duck (generally slowing down to look at decoys), and a thin target on edge moving from 45-50 mph... And shooting crossing clay targets at 40 yards becomes considerably more difficult...
And, I would guess that most shooters were only taking one shot at that target... Whereas, if I miss that first shot at a thirty yard crossing duck, there is still a strong likelihood that I will hit it on the second.
I figure most shooters should be able to bring a bird down on each jump if shooting at birds in range... Two shooters standing up on a flock of birds should be able to kill two or more birds... If that is not happening, the birds are probably out further than the shooters think.
I know a few hunters in which a 40 yard duck/goose with vitals showing over the top is a consistent shot... 50 yards, not so much. A lot of that has to due with the ability to put the pattern on the bird, and a lot of that has to due with creating a pattern (with large enough pellets to hold the energy) to kill birds consistently at those ranges.
If I really needed to kill birds at 50 yards (consistently), I would be looking at one of the denser metals, such as TSS or Hevi-shot... I'd probably push it through a modified choke (and go from there). I would not care much for the cost of that learning curve though.
That's right Squaller , shots past 50 yds does take larger steel shot sizes ( and for me ) #1's or even bigger but to keep them in a usable pattern density
in my guns it takes a IM .025 choke . Naturally this choke isn't what's needed for over decoys as it Greatly Handicaps closer shots , along with mostly
ruining the birds that are hit so , a constriction more inline to .010 or .o15 to a hunters bore size would work nicely for shot sizes under #2's for those
closer than 40 yd shots , with the ability to reach out to 45 yds ! Remembering , distance shooting success comes from Shot Size and it's Density , along with it's pattern density , NOT from how fast it's going with to small of steel shot .
Not arguing that at all. I feel the same way. The test was very specific. Left to right, which is not the easier way to swing (right to left is easier on the body for a RH shooter) The bird was not especially fast. You also got 8 chances, so 'adjustments' should have been able to be made.
This is the biggest error 'we' as hunters make. Which is why range identification was part of the class.
I don't remember how everyone else did. Some may have hit 4 of 8, which I consider an acceptable hit ratio, but it wasn't enough to meet the test standard. I DO remember I wiffed all 8 of mine at 30. (I hit 7 of 8 after his shooting instruction talk)