In lieu of the recent bad news from up North

Discussion in 'Chesapeake Flyway Forum' started by rbr, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. slacktide

    slacktide Elite Refuge Member

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    Although I am a strong advocate in protecting the species, and at the risk of being referred to
    as "stupid" again ... I merely want to point out the inconsistencies in the reports and the methods of
    data collection.

    For example, yesterday I harvested a doe, and by law I was specifically required to "call it in" that is
    definitive proof of the harvest. When I dropped it off at the processors, there was a DNR team there
    surveying the harvest for age and other biological data. Boots on the ground collecting Harvest Data - a good thing
    Valid statistical data being collected.

    I have harvested quite a few geese on the Eastern Shore since 1974. Other than what gets filled in on my HIP
    report, there is no active survey being performed on the geese I have shot ( unless I shoot a banded goose). Not saying
    that we should be calling in our goose harvest information, but there is no real method of calculating the harvest
    except for statistical review of volunteered information 5-8 months later.

    Once again, I reiterate - I am all for protecting the resource, but my point has always been that I do not believe that the
    biologist have a handle on the data

    Specifically from the report cited above:

    Using banding and band recovery data, we estimated that almost 255,600 adult geese were
    harvested annually in the U.S. portion of the Atlantic Flyway (2012 sic). This is considerably less than the
    average annual harvest of approximately 507,800 adult geese estimated by the U.S. National
    Waterfowl Harvest Survey for the same years

    That means that the USFW estimate is 50% off the biologist/banding teams reported data... Any scientific endeavor
    that has a range of 50% is deemed a failed analysis... yet this information is continually collected and evaluated even though it
    is cannot be confirmed with parallel studies.

    I am all for limiting and or closing the season on our beloved geese... we will all grumble and get through it, but lets also take the time
    to create a better way to evaluate the population and its distribution. There is the duck wing collection program, I am sure they could do a goose wing collection program in order to evaluate the DNA of wintering geese to ascertain what population is going where. Also, we have not determined why the AP goose population is in failure mode... It is one bad nesting season following a great nesting season - pretty weak argument because the models need to be based on more evidence... Or are we not allocating the resource properly by allowing too many days afield? Going back to the 70-80's there was a tremendous amount of pressure on the geese... Seasons starting in October running to the last Saturday in January with just one week off for deer season... 3 birds a day, and an influx of eager hunters from everywhere coming to the shore to harvest their birds...AND there was a ton of birds... fall flights to the eastern shore that blackened the sky when they erupted from a corn field.... so many geese that made leases ridiculous for any field anywhere on the shore... and those fields which haven't seen a goose in years produced annually! What has happened to that population? Obviously it has not been short stopped as we have ll thought based on the overall population numbers. Oil drilling in Canada? Something more obvious? - Like the lack of waste corn on the Eastern Shore Wintering grounds due to changing Agricultural practices... This is where real science needs to get involved. What and Why?

    Furthermore, what is it about the snow geese that have exploded their population throughout the country? We have a distinct species of snow goose here on the Delmarva, and that population has exploded parallel to the other populations of sub species throughout the Missippi and Central flyways? Why are they thriving in the same wintering habitat as the canada ( Ok I know they have also had quite a few bad nesting years recently - but you get my pint) Is this having a detrimental effect on the Canada Geese?

    We had let the population of geese dwindle to extremely low breeding pair numbers in the 90's and fortunately the season moratorium repaired the numbers
    back to a healthy range by eliminating the birds killed by hunters... I am sure that it will have the same effect again.
     
  2. Bwana1

    Bwana1 Elite Refuge Member

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    FYI. The program that collects duck wings also collects goose wing and tail feathers. This info determines the ratio of old/ young birds.
     
  3. Tailfeathers

    Tailfeathers Elite Refuge Member

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    I agree, why bother to lie and have a negative accuracy effect on the program?
     
  4. Tailfeathers

    Tailfeathers Elite Refuge Member

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    Hey, leave me outta this!
     
  5. carolina girl

    carolina girl Elite Refuge Member

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    I’m not sure what the big inconvenience is about having to call your harvest in daily. If it helps get more accurate numbers to protect the species, I have no problem calling in my birds of any species.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
  6. Mayor of Seneca

    Mayor of Seneca Elite Refuge Member

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    When AP/RP birds are banded their sex and age is determine (juvi/adult) and banding location. The data is recorded with USFWS banding data group in Laurel, MD. Now banding survey crews band AP geese on east/west side of Ungava they are all AP geese while others outside of the AP nesting regions are RP geese even during a "molt" migration. Atlantic Flyway consists of Atlantic population, North Atlantic and Southern James Bay goose populations; these birds all nest in their own regions so far north and not even close to southern regions of Canada that have resident populations. So banding location determines its "orgin" not where it was harvested. RP geese from New England states are also harvested in Maryland when weather forces them to also migrate south so they still are and always will be "RP" geese.

    Now the internet vids/FB/forums or what ever that voices they are not or don't turn in your bands from States to our north in order to skew the data are NOT helping us. I applaud you all for doing what we need to do saving our AP population but when you don't have all the data that handicaps all of us to have all the science to do our best for the resource.

    Pappy
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
    bird junkie likes this.
  7. Ruination

    Ruination Senior Refuge Member

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    They hold onto the band that shows they are killing AP geese in resident season. Call it in first split.
     
  8. slacktide

    slacktide Elite Refuge Member

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    at work or behind the wheel driving to work...
    Here is yet another twist on this issue. I was reading in one of the outdoor magazines, Field & Stream/Sports Afield/Outdoor Life in this month's issue and there was an article on hunting Caribou in Quebec... Apparently, after last season the Quebec Government closed the Caribou Sport Hunting season due to serious declines in population trends over the last five years... Ok so here is the kicker, those herds of Caribou spend their summers on the Ungava Peninsula as well... Weird coincidence for sure, but we are talking about two distinct and separate populations that one time seemed to have limitless populations decline simultaneously with the only common factor is their shared geographical environment... What else can be happening up there?
     
  9. Dirtybird420

    Dirtybird420 Senior Refuge Member

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    Exactly. I report everyday for crabbing. It takes about 5 mins. You would think people who care that much about waterfowl could find the time to do it. Obviously there would be people who don’t but the more that do it daily in real-time allows the higher ups to make better decisions. I still can’t believe they don’t do it with rec crabbers n fisherman for rockfish. Everyone complains but no one wants to report. When you have 100 plus boats chumming catching 4 plus man limits all summer I think that’s a number Dnr needs to kno. An I could care less about a rockfish they eat my crabs. Point is any extra harvest info they can get real-time has to help.
     
  10. Dirtybird420

    Dirtybird420 Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    537
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Exactly. I report everyday for crabbing. It takes about 5 mins. You would think people who care that much about waterfowl could find the time to do it. Obviously there would be people who don’t but the more that do it daily in real-time allows the higher ups to make better decisions. I still can’t believe they don’t do it with rec crabbers n fisherman for rockfish. Everyone complains but no one wants to report. When you have 100 plus boats chumming catching 4 plus man limits all summer I think that’s a number Dnr needs to kno. An I could care less about a rockfish they eat my crabs. Point is any extra harvest info they can get real-time has to help.
     
    Z71 likes this.
  11. Z71

    Z71 Refuge Member

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    Montauker, nice work. Do you know if this based on the HIP reports or what is the base line
     

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