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Discussion in 'Christian Forum' started by Buffalo Howler, Aug 30, 2019.
Would the Mormons on this site please explain their understanding of this church leader?
If you want to know what I know about Joseph Smith, the easiest way to do that is to read:
The Story of the Church of Jesus Christ in the Latter Days
It’s free to read and that will tell you everything I know, short of having the Spirit testify of truth. It’s not the Book Of Mormon, it’s the history of how The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints began. It’s history, and you can verify the information through all of the links provided.
We aren’t actually “Mormons” but are often referred to as such. It isn’t Mormons church, it is the Lords Church. Mormon was a prophet who kept the record passed down to him from other prophets of God, as directed by the Lord.
If you have more questions after reading that, please let me know.
These questions tend to have an agenda to prove that we aren’t Christians or something else along those lines, so allow me to explain a bit about what we think.
Jesus doesn’t make up the difference that we lack, Jesus makes all the difference. Grace isn’t about filling gaps, it’s about filling us. Jesus paid our debt in full. He didn’t pay it all except for a few coins, He paid it all, it is finished.
Christ’s grace is sufficient to transform us.
Christ’s arrangement with us is similar to a mom paying for piano lessons for her child. Mom pays the piano teacher. Because mom pays the debt in full, she can turn to her child and ask for something... practice.
Does the child’s practice pay the piano teacher? No.
Does the childs practice repay mom for paying the piano teacher? No.
Practicing is how the child shows appreciation for moms incredible gift. It is how he takes advantage of the amazing opportunity mom is giving him to live his life at a higher level. Moms joy is not found in getting repaid but in seeing her gift used, seeing her child improve and so she continues to call for practice, practice, practice...
Does the child see the practice being called for the same way his mother does? No. Often the child sees it as overbearing. That child doesn’t yet see with moms eyes and doesn’t see how much better his life could be if he chose to live it on a higher plain.
In the same way, because Jesus has paid justice, He can now turn to us and say, “Follow Me. Keep My commandments.” If we see His requirements as being way too much to ask, “Gosh... none of the other Christians have to pay tithing. Gosh... none of the other Christians have to go on missions. They don’t have to do temple work. They don’t have to serve in callings in church.”
Maybe we don’t yet see through Christ’s eyes. Maybe we have not yet comprehended what He is trying to make of us.
Back to our piano analogy. The child must practice the piano. But this practice has a different purpose than punishment or payment, it’s purpose is change...
Are we, members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints, trying to earn our way to heaven...? No, we are not earning heaven.
We are learning heaven.
We are preparing for it.
We are practicing for it.
Have I been saved by grace? Yes. Absolutely. Totally. Completely. Thankfully. Yes!
Have you, been changed, by grace?
Are we so happy that our debt has been paid that we haven’t considered why the debt existed in the first place? Latter Day Saints know, not only what Jesus has saved us from, but what He has saved us for.
“A life impacted by grace, eventually begins to look like Christ’s life.”
“While many Christians view Christ’s suffering as only a huge favor He did for us, Latter Day Saints also recognize it as a huge investment He made in us.”
Grace isn’t just about being saved, it is about becoming like the Savior.
Scriptures make it clear that no unclean thing can dwell with God. No unchanged thing will even want to... Have you, been changed, by grace?
Can you expand on what the “record passed down” is and means?
I would like to keep this post focused on Mr. Smith and his prophet role in your church. I do appreciate your analogy on grace but does it align with scripture?
To answer your question on grace. I have been saved by grace. Changed by the Holy Spirit.
The Book Of Mormon contains the record that was passed down. In it you’ll find the teachings of Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith translated that record by the power of God into English as it was written in reformed Egyptian.
And again, if you’re truly interested in Joseph Smith, read what I wrote in my first reply.
I went back to see on your link and it no longer gets past the preface page. What you shared about the reformed Egyptian is new to me. Can that be explained? As I have understood the Canaanite/Egyptians came from Ham. Jesus came from Shem.
And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.
Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,
The prophets have severely warned Gods people from becoming like the people of Canaan. This ties into the other post on the destruction of Canaan ordered by God to Joshua. Jesus means Joshua. That very same destruction I was told is a sign as to what will happen when the Lord returns. Thus the question of why God was using the language of Egypt to his people of Israel the church.
The link works - you’ll see some arrows on the page. The right one goes to the next page, the left one goes back a page as you read.
This time it did let me turn the pages. So the question I have along with the ones above about “Egyptian” language is why would anyone ignore what was already written? The little boy Joseph should have paid attention to what this verse says.
“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.“
Did hurt feelings from a church lead him and his family astray?
He didn’t ignore what was written. In fact he read this verse and then prayed to receive guidance:
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
As for your question about the writing being in reformed Egyptian, there are only a few ways to answer that. One: read what I gave you. Two: read the Book of Mormon. Three: study ancient civilizations to understand what languages they used to write in to find out that reformed Egyptian was indeed used in Jerusalem some 600 years before Christ was born and even down to the time and after He was born.
Or you should have paid attention to James 1:5-6
You’re statement might only hold validity if we believed that the boy Joseph was not visited by heavenly beings.
Is God, or is He not, the same yesterday, today, tomorrow and forever? If you believe that, then why would anyone believe that He wouldn’t or couldn’t come and give further instruction or guidance to man? Seems pretty narrow minded to me to believe that God only hung around during biblical times them left for good, leaving mankind forever until His Second Coming. This line of thinking seems to put limitations on God.
I don’t fall in with that line of thought. He loves us. He wants the best for us all. He didn’t leave us and He still guides and directs us.
Astray? No. The answer to this question is also in the reading I directed you to.
Look, if you don’t want to read it, I’m fine with that, but the answers to your questions are in that history. You’re obviously strong in your faith - are you concerned you’ll learn some history and the answers to the questions you’re asking, or...?