Off topic ...Clumping

Discussion in 'Shooting - Reloading Forum' started by R.R.HARBAUGH, Nov 30, 2021.

  1. C M Wings

    C M Wings Senior Refuge Member

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    Yeah - kind of just explaining why the shot looks like it does.
     
  2. woodiefanatic

    woodiefanatic Elite Refuge Member

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    While I don’t disagree entirely with your post this statement is incorrect.

    Every pellet you find inside a bird has transferred ALL of its kinetic energy (KE) to the bird. The Law of Conservation of Energy will explain this.

    If your pellet doesn’t have enough KE to penetrate to something vital it will not kill a duck.
     
  3. Native NV Ducker

    Native NV Ducker Mod-Duck Hunters Forum, Classifieds, and 2 others Moderator

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    You are right, of course. However, I was responding to this comment....
    By that comment, the 'transfer of kinetic energy', regardless of placement, would result in a kill. That can be true, in the case of a rifle bullet. It can actually 'miss' the heart, but the KE as it passes closely by will disrupt the organ. Not to mention the MUCH larger entry/exit holes, which are caused by KE.
    If you re-read my post, it makes sense, if not perfectly worded.
     
  4. Vahunter

    Vahunter Elite Refuge Member

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    Hold that thought

    Wound channels aren't the only things that matter

    His statement is not incorrect. You're all right.
    Wound channels matter and a pellets penetrating to disrupt, destroy, whatever, will kill also.

    However force does not have make something penetrate to kill. Years ago, in fire academy, we watched the video of a firefighter subjected to an explosion and dying a few seconds later. No object penetrated his body. He tried to run to an ambulance but collapsed and died in the middle of road. The concussion killed him. Someone similarly can be killed with a baseball bat to the torso, Thereby injuring the heart, liver, blood vessels, etc.
     
  5. Vahunter

    Vahunter Elite Refuge Member

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    Aren't we though taking about the same sized pellets, some going fast and some no so much? The faster ones would hit with greater energy, by definition. Have I missed something?
     
  6. Native NV Ducker

    Native NV Ducker Mod-Duck Hunters Forum, Classifieds, and 2 others Moderator

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    Comparing an explosion to shotgun pellets is quite a reach.
    In an explosion, the shock wave basically rapidly compresses your body and everything inside. Organs rupture, veins explode and even the eyes in your head can explode. And if that doesn't get you, rapid heating off the air can sear your air ways and cook you from the inside out.
    A few pellets aren't gonna do that.
    Agreed. Especially if they are through a vital, like the heart. But, a pellet through the guts, even the liver, 'may' kill the bird, but the hunter isn't going to be there to see it. We call that a 'wounded bird'.
    This is the only true statement. You have to disrupt the functions of a vital to have a quick, recoverable kill. As I said, brain, neck, spine, heart, lungs.
    This is a good article on how kinetic energy works on flesh..
    https://www.everydaymarksman.co/marksmanship/terminal-ballistics/
     
  7. Ruination

    Ruination Elite Refuge Member

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    We also know that force has an equal and opposite reaction though and the kick from a single shot (no recoil suppression shotgun) isn't killing a duck. These shells barely move a 5lb shotgun.

    That force on a small surface area gives penetration.

    For example a sledge hammer crawling will have the force of a pellet.

    There are rounds with absurd energy that will melt your organs, but birdshot isn't it.
     
  8. Gmack

    Gmack Senior Refuge Member

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    2 years ago opening day my blind mate takes first shot of the day. Fire and debris come flying out of the action right in his face and nearly blinds him with **** getting in his eyes. Scarred the hell out of us. We were both afraid to shoot after it happened. Barrel was completely plugged with something after the shot. I couldn’t budge it with a healthy stick. Later at the camp we found a piece of rebar and used it to clear the barrel. The shot was stuck. Don’t know what caused it, but hope it never happens again.
     
  9. Iammichael6499

    Iammichael6499 Senior Refuge Member

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    I’ve gleaned so much from this forum. Now I have lots to talk about with my family over the holidays. For instance … “Hey mom, I learned a lot about kinetic energy and other cool stuff from my waterfowl forum friends. Did you know that if I shoot a duck between the eyes with a .378 mag it’ll probably rip it’s head right off but if I shoot an elephant with bird shot it’ll probably stomp me to death. For sure … you just can’t argue with physics and beer.”
     
    woodiefanatic likes this.
  10. R.R.HARBAUGH

    R.R.HARBAUGH Senior Refuge Member

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    Ole Ned Sawggard
    Grave Yard Dead!!!
    Still have a sticker with his Logo on my shop fridge from Waterfolwer .com magazine.
    His knowledge was Legendary, an Iowa native worked at the Burlington Munitions Plant. Retired to Texas.

    And I'm not a feared to shoot said shells, just opening a topic for discussion.
    To add to the debate I interject this....
    If it is not Clumping
    How about Stacking of shot??
    We see a pattern board as a flat pattern, when we know that it is actually a shot string. Could these random massive holes be caused by 2-3 or 4 pellets hitting in the same area at a micro difference in time. Like when you see multi hits close together on a pattern board.
    Brain Trust says.................
     

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