Pattern bloom

hamernhonkers

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Was working on a new bismuth load yesterday for my daughter over the decoys and decided to just work it back to 40 to see how the pattern held up. I have seen some patterns just fall apart over the years but Was really shocked how this one just went to pieces in just 5 yards. Figure it's a good reminder to check your patten to the max distance you plan to shoot your load too. In this case it's 10 yards further then I want her shooting it but still cool to see. I hope I can keep them in order lol. They are 3/4 oz bismuth 6 shot at 1500 FPS.
 

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Buster_AZ

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Thanks for posting the pics. I’ve seen a similar situation with some 20 gauge loads as well.
 

Ravenanme

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Yep it's interesting to see the conclusion but I have to wonder . Why test a shot size , that's to small with not enough energy and pattern density
to perform at that distance ? 3/4 oz of Bismuth 6's would seem to be sufficient inside the decoys ( 30 yds ) and that's about all ? Most payloads
will fall off within 5 yds as their velocity deteriorates but I'm sure you know , what starts faster , slows down quicker ? Bismuth performs better
closer to 1300 fps ! Your Daughter is a lucky girl with you loading for her !
 

hamernhonkers

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I pushed the pattern back to just see the digression it had as it went out, so just simply curiosity was all for the distance. Now the speed, her gun patterns very well with the Carlson light mod tube with her normal load of steel 4's, hw13 4's and 6's, and hw15 6's. I don't need to change out her choke for any reason as I worked up the loads to match the desired patterns out of one tube. I was intrigued to see what a fast load of bismuth would do as far as patterning out of that tube and after seeing it on paper I would say inside of 30 if she dose her part their will not a be any duck that would want to take it's chances with that pattern. I loaded up 10 more last night to go verify they will hold that pattern and also I want to see if I can keep that load together at 40 with more constriction just for ****s and giggles. In other words, it's still a long time to October when she can finally put them to use and I am board LOL
 

Doug E

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Sounds like he has good loads already with the hw13's 4's and 6's, and I would not want to be a goose inside 30 yards having to deal with 178 #6's, but even less if it was 4's because the pellet count would still be high at 30 yds and better penetration and maybe a little slower. Below is a previous entry on a thread re; bismuth 6's for geese...

At 40 yards away.
1500 fps Bismuth #6 shot gets 1.39" of gel penetration at 40 yards.
1500 fps Steel #2 shot gets 1.75" of gel penetration at 40 yards.
1250 fps 15g/cc #7 shot gets 2.43" of gel penetration at 40 yards.
1250 fps 15g/cc #5 shot gets 3.31" of gel penetration at 40 yards.
1250 fps 15g/cc #4 shot gets 3.76" of gel penetration at 40 yards.
1250 fps HW13 #2 shot gets 3.31" of gel penetration at 40 yards.

Supposedly it takes 1.50" of penetration in 20% gel to reliably kill big ducks and 2.20" of penetration into 20% gel to reliably kill small geese.

At 1500 fps the #6 Bismuth shot doesn't get the 1.50" of gel penetration to reliably kill big ducks at 40 yards.
 

Dr Swane

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Was working on a new bismuth load yesterday for my daughter over the decoys and decided to just work it back to 40 to see how the pattern held up. I have seen some patterns just fall apart over the years but Was really shocked how this one just went to pieces in just 5 yards. Figure it's a good reminder to check your patten to the max distance you plan to shoot your load too. In this case it's 10 yards further then I want her shooting it but still cool to see. I hope I can keep them in order lol. They are 3/4 oz bismuth 6 shot at 1500 FPS.
Those 6’s load nice. If you want a bit more distance, mod-improved mod and bump up to 0.85oz of shot. I use 1.00oz of Bis 6’s in the 12gauge and IM choke (Carlsons) when I know it’ll be a duck shoot, feels like shooting trap loads. The fastest I’ve shot bismuth in all gauges is around 1465fps. 1200-1350fps is what I try to keep my bis and HTL shot types around.

I also made up some 28gauge 0.80-0.87oz loads of Bis #3/5’s blended and they pattern well too. In my findings, it’s seems some of the smaller shot sizes mixed in (various load options of smaller shot on top, blended in; and on the bottom) almost acts as buffer and useable payload.
 

Ravenanme

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I know you two (HH and Dr) are old hats loading and it takes experimenting to justify any load ! Bismuth being so mailable does offer some
payload choices as in Duplex loads , personally , I've got a lot to learn ! With standard loads of #4's at 1300/1350 fps my experience has
been limited but I don't see why I would need more ! I have reduced payloads down to ONE oz and it proved , if I do my part , they work fine !
That's interesting Jesse , LM in the 28 patterning basically the same with All those pellet densities ? Some , I would think being , to tight ?
 

hamernhonkers

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Surprisingly Larry it really patterns well across the full range of loads. The steel is only used out to 30 yards with 4 and 5 shot, the hw13 4 shot to 45 ish and the hw15 6 shot for 50 plus, so yes at shorter ranges a couple of them are very tight but as you know the hw15 and especially tss really hold pattern over a long range compared to the lighter stuff. The hw15 gives me a very workable pattern with good pattern density from 35 to about 60 yards for big geese and of course anything under that is Swiss cheese lol.

Two years ago I landed my daughter a flock of geese on the youth hunt and had her turkey shoot the first bird, had two hw13 4's in followed by a hw15, the gun jammed, she very quickly handed it to me, I cleared it, handed it back and she then dropped a second one out of the bunch at about 50 yards with the hw15 load. I couldn't stop laughing as it didn't seem possible but she pulled it off. Doubt she'll ever do it again but but it sure worked that day.

I just finished patterning another 4 loads with the bismuth and I have settled on a 3/4 oz load of 6 shot as it has great pattern density, moved it down to 1400 fps and I am getting over 150 in the circle at 35 with a good even pattern so even if shots a little late on a bird over the blocks she should still have a really good chance of killing it. Of course for the other day's when they just won't play nice or the wind is to much she'll be loaded up with some hw13 6's or a steel x Tss load that will be this next weeks fun. Now I just need a lot more paper so I can pattern them lol.
 

Ravenanme

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Surprisingly Larry it really patterns well across the full range of loads. The steel is only used out to 30 yards with 4 and 5 shot, the hw13 4 shot to 45 ish and the hw15 6 shot for 50 plus, so yes at shorter ranges a couple of them are very tight but as you know the hw15 and especially tss really hold pattern over a long range compared to the lighter stuff. The hw15 gives me a very workable pattern with good pattern density from 35 to about 60 yards for big geese and of course anything under that is Swiss cheese lol.

Two years ago I landed my daughter a flock of geese on the youth hunt and had her turkey shoot the first bird, had two hw13 4's in followed by a hw15, the gun jammed, she very quickly handed it to me, I cleared it, handed it back and she then dropped a second one out of the bunch at about 50 yards with the hw15 load. I couldn't stop laughing as it didn't seem possible but she pulled it off. Doubt she'll ever do it again but but it sure worked that day.

I just finished patterning another 4 loads with the bismuth and I have settled on a 3/4 oz load of 6 shot as it has great pattern density, moved it down to 1400 fps and I am getting over 150 in the circle at 35 with a good even pattern so even if shots a little late on a bird over the blocks she should still have a really good chance of killing it. Of course for the other day's when they just won't play nice or the wind is to much she'll be loaded up with some hw13 6's or a steel x Tss load that will be this next weeks fun. Now I just need a lot more paper so I can pattern them lol.

As you know I'm a pump shooter and have been very excited about finding a Old 1973 Wingmaster 20 ga 3" large frame ! I'm now working
on some loads both in 2 3/4" and 3" so , I have been going back over Dave's records to see , what looks best ! I agree 3/4 oz in the 28 ga is
a hammer , with 15 g/cc in #7's (that's all I have) it surprises most that I hunt with . I do like HW 13 #4's , even though pattern density is
kind of weak , you put it on them ( Big Geese ) and they fold-up like rags .

Check this Honey out ?
 

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C M Wings

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Interesting data. I know I have turkey patterns with certain lead loads that are dynamite at 40 yards and worthless at 45.
 

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