Proposed changes to Migratory Birds Regulations could end feeding

Discussion in 'Canadian Hunters Forum' started by green_head123, Jan 22, 2017.

  1. Jjm

    Jjm Refuge Member

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    I agree birds have a lot more options to find water, and hunters aren’t the only ones with ice eaters. We are probably minority with ice eaters. So many farmers, private residential homes, and developments with retention ponds run them now.
    I always have always wondered how it is illegal ,bating, to put food in the water, but putting water on the food is legal?
    2+3=5 but 3+2 does not =5
    Makes you scratch your head or look at the size of your wallet.
     
    Jay Mo 37 likes this.
  2. bill cooksey

    bill cooksey Elite Refuge Member

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    Couple of reasons come immediately to mind. First, bait is far more effective when it comes to killing ducks. The folks who wrote the original laws were well versed in using bait and were witness to its detrimental effect to duck populations. Second, water is added to standing crops naturally in many parts of the country, and that was even more common at the time regulations were first instituted. This year is a prime example in that a wet fall kept many farmers out of certain fields, or at least parts of fields, and there are still tens of thousands of acres of standing beans in this part of the MS flyway.

    Basically, those who equate true baiting with flooded crops have little to no experience with one or both.
     
    Jay Mo 37 and dvegas like this.
  3. Cliner

    Cliner Elite Refuge Member

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    Your mathematical logic doesn't apply here, it is also grossly oversimplified. Have you ever taken any chemistry classes?
    Example: In chemistry, we always added acid to water, not water to acid. It totally changes the density as well as the general reaction. When adding water to acid, it heats up far quicker causing the water to boil faster. When adding acid to water, it does not.

    I know you're probably wondering how this relates to duck killin. The reaction of the duck is completely different adding water to corn versus corn to water.
     
  4. Jjm

    Jjm Refuge Member

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    Call what it simple or whatever you choose, but it is not too difficult to figure out what it really is.
    Building a levee, installing a pump to put water into a field is not something a farmer does.
    All the farmers around me hate water. They do just the opposite, put drain tile in fields to get rid off water.
    I do not think it requires a 2nd derivative, seven page probability, or a corn molality to realize it does not add up. Occam’s razor is all that is needed to figure this out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  5. Cliner

    Cliner Elite Refuge Member

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    What it is, is not what you described in the post I quoted. That's all I was trying to say. Say what you will about what is due to mother nature or not due to mother nature, the bottom line is that it is done within the confines of the law. After that, the debate of what laws need to be changed, modifed, etc is an entirely different debate. I would still caution your rationale of thought.

    By your logic, hunting over a baited field is wrong. How the field was baited should not matter at all, the fact that you are hunting over bait is the only argument. So, a millet field on the edge of a reservoir is flooded due to excessive rain. Regardless of how the water got there, you are now hunting a baited field. There is now a food source to which water was added. Anyone hunting that field is technically hunting over bait (water added to food).

    So, would your recommendation be that you can only hunt in water that is deep enough to not allow any type of forage to be accessible to the ducks?
     
  6. bill cooksey

    bill cooksey Elite Refuge Member

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    While that may be true for farmers in your little part of the world, it is not the case in others. Oh, and most of the levees on duck property around here were put in by the Corps in an attempt to keep water out, however they often have the reverse effect. Wells, pumps and re-lifts are also common to farming in this region for many reasons.
     
  7. Jjm

    Jjm Refuge Member

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    Millet has its own defined very specific regulations about how and when.
    Planting a field not harvesting and then pumping in water I believe is really stretching the terms normal agricultural practices, manipulation, and preparation.
    Everyone is entitled to their view. Yes, Farming practices vary by region, but when a farmer is offered 3rd party $ for additional practices, that’s when it’s time to ask is this legit or not. Is it really normal agricultural practice. Would he be doing this if i wasn’t giving him an “envelope” for a lease.
    Maybe he would or not, but the more questions you have to keep asking to make sure you are staying legal is not a route I prefer to take.
     
  8. bill cooksey

    bill cooksey Elite Refuge Member

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    You put way too much weight on "normal agricultural practice." Many normal ag practices result in a baited spot where no legal hunting can take place. Also worth noting that flooded crops have ALWAYS been legal to hunt. Considering there's very little natural waterfowl habitat left in this part of the world because every river is channeled and leveed, any further regulation could have serious repercussions for both ducks and duck hunters. In dry years, were it not for the ground flooded by duck hunters much of the MS flyway would be a wasteland for waterfowl due to how badly we've wrecked the land and rivers.

    Is it the lease deal that bothers you?
    Is it somehow worse if a crop is intentionally flooded by duck hunters, or would any flooded crops be off limits in your ideal scenario? If the latter, much of the flyway would have been closed this year since few places weren't within the zone of influence of standing beans.
    Is moist soil somehow more ethical to grow, flood and hunt than crops?
    Are you like the LA guy I corresponded with who felt that any water held back by a levee should be off limits?

    It's actually very easy to stay legal in regards to hunting over standing and harvested crops. The USFWS spells it out very well.
     
  9. Billy Bob

    Billy Bob Elite Refuge Member

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    LOL don't try to argue with Bill. Don't you know he rubs shoulders with all the big boys that own baiting operations and he hunts with the best in the world? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  10. Jjm

    Jjm Refuge Member

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    i am getting that billy bob.
    He implied he leases thus the rest of us are poor bitter and envious.
    We must wishingly gazing over the fence line at his lease, and dream of the day we can make it like him.
     
    Jay Mo 37 likes this.

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