Proposed Seasons for 2021-2022

Discussion in 'Chesapeake Flyway Forum' started by Langford, Feb 8, 2021.

  1. derek

    derek Elite Refuge Member

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    If it is so fragile that the day of the week makes or breaks the population - maybe we're not taking the management of these species seriously enough.
     
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  2. Dirtybird420

    Dirtybird420 Elite Refuge Member

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    If 10 extra weekend days drives any species into a moratorium it shoulda already been in place.
     
  3. Trevor Shannahan

    Trevor Shannahan Elite Refuge Member

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    Personally, I don’t think it will cause a moratorium, I just think it will ruin the quality of of hunting and further discourage geese from migrating this far when they don’t have to.
     
  4. Dirtybird420

    Dirtybird420 Elite Refuge Member

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    That is probably the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Birds migrate as far as they need to to survive. They don’t pick up outta Canada an go hey guys let’s go to that rock hall place it’s so nice n less pressured cause they don’t hunt sundays. God I need this weather to break so I’m not looking at this phone so much.
     
  5. Trevor Shannahan

    Trevor Shannahan Elite Refuge Member

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    Incorrect. Why would geese come to MD at all except on a terrible weather year then? Why do some geese short stop north and others don’t? It’s not like the geese in MD couldn’t survive with their buddies that winter in NY and PA.

    An added high pressure day would certainly lead to less bird wanting to migrate here, but also simply decrease the quality of hunting of the birds that still come.

    It’s a pretty simple concept to understand, but I guess I shouldn’t expect much from a guy who struggles to type out grammatically correct, coherent sentences.
     
  6. Dirtybird420

    Dirtybird420 Elite Refuge Member

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    The birds don’t migrate down in any real numbers without bad weather to the north.
     
  7. bird junkie

    bird junkie Elite Refuge Member

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    It’s a guess by you, there is no concept unless you can show that Canada geese can reason.

    Why did Md become the goose Mecca and the birds stop migrating to NC?
     
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  8. Dirtybird420

    Dirtybird420 Elite Refuge Member

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    Pressure duh. Cause Maryland is so different then any other state in the US. Birds fly from long n far directly to eastern shore didn’t u kno. It’s crazy stuff. I’m still trying to figure out why they cut everyone to 1 bird. It should only be md that’s 1 bird we winter em all.
     
  9. slacktide

    slacktide Elite Refuge Member

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    Geese and all waterfowl seem to be evolving somewhat.... As a youngster in the 70's in Kent County, I could count on the geese arriving in early September and by October 1, there was a ton of geese on the shore- The earliest I remember the season starting was 10/19/85. The corn was harvested and the fields were left alone until spring. I am not a farmer, and not sure of the process, but it seems to me as a casual observer, that turning over the fields and planting wheat, eliminates a great deal of stray grain on the surface - I may be wrong...but driving through Pennsylvania their corn fields are still harvested corn fields into the winter ( ours are wheat) - there are as many geese on a drive north as there are on a drive east...As stated "our geese" used to winter in Lake Mattamusket/Hyde County NC until the advent of the mechanical corn picker according to history/lore.... the geese altered their patterns based upon the availability of food source - not hunting pressure. Does wheat grass provide the same diet and carbs for geese as corn for their winter survival and ultimate strength in reaching the breeding grounds healthy? My guess is that it does not...

    Someone had posted pictures of harvested canvasback limit in Maryland back in the 50's... the trees still had their golden leaves on them - indicating it was a November photo ... Our canvasback do not really show up until mid to late December now or even later due to weather... there is an infamous article that shows up from time to time in hunting books and magazines that was published in the Baltimore Sun around 1900 that outlines the opening day of duck season and sink box shooting on the flats with canvasback harvests in the 100's and opening date mentioned in the article was November 1. These early migrations were all pre-Agnes when the wild celery and SAV choked the flats and tributaries of the Bay... now the CBF gets all excited over a few thousand acres of inferior SAV... doesn't take a genius to figure out cause and effect....

    We still have a healthy population of blackheads in some place in Maryland, but definitely not the swarms upon swarms that I remember as a youth... I have heard that they have transitioned their feeding to the invasive Zebra mussels in the Great Lakes which preclude their need to migrate to Maryland until that food source freezes off. But further study indicates that this diet of Zebra mussels has some effect on their long term health or reproductive success, and the population is declining....

    Furthermore, Snow Geese were a complete rarity beyond 5 miles either side of Bombay Hook even back in the 70's.... there was a small wintering population around Snow Hill at that time and eventually there was a limited localize season until the 80's... Look what has happened to that population in response to their switch in feeding habits... they switched from a marsh environment to agricultural fields and their population has soared.. I anticipate that it is applied over the entire country as the white goose population has adopted their diet to agriculture over the marsh grasses.

    How about the Maryland Swans? They are not pursued by our hunters, yet our brethren to the South pursue them? By the argument of hunting pressure effects migration, swans should get to Maryland and stop and not venture into the danger zones of Virginia and North Carolina. In my observations, it appeared that there were fewer swans in Maryland this season than in past years... I may be wrong, but just didn't see them in the usual places.

    An interesting aside, is that the Caribou population in the Ungava peninsula has had a recent serious decline.... studies indicated that the long term population of these animals had a dramatic population increase from 1950s to 1980's... I haven't really delved into it, but I am sure there is a connection there on the breeding grounds... there is more to this Goose thing than pressure from Hunters and Sunday Hunting...

    In summation, the waterfowl populations are fluctuating and adapting to survival in our changing world. As people change to adapt to forces in nature (and if you don't think so think of how our behavior has been altered in the last 12 months) so must waterfowl. Our Biologist are still using the same information and methods to determine habitat and populations as they have for the last two generations, and we are in reactive mode ( which is good) but still do not know what we are talking about -
     
  10. Langford

    Langford Senior Refuge Member

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    Another well thought out post from slacktide. A quick history lesson is always educational.

    With that being said- Let’s look at the current situation in the Atlantic Flyway. Several recent snow/ice storms have recently pushed through PA and NY within the last 3 weeks. Us in Maryland obviously got some but not the high snow totals. There are more geese in Kent and Cecil counties as a result than their was the last few weeks of January for sure. They have also switched to an all day feeding pattern it seems (I contribute this to both the weather and lack of hunting pressure) this correlates directly to the weather and short stopping arguments. NY and PA get snow covered (we have extra geese) Does not seem just the cold does it as much any more as they have learned to keep the roost ponds open up that way.
     
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