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San Joaquin River - Salmon in your Future?

Discussion in 'California Flyway Forum' started by DuckFan, Apr 3, 2006.

  1. Ravenanme

    Ravenanme Elite Refuge Member

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    Close to where I hunt
    Oh and there's no doubt Newly planted Almond Orchards are impacting the Waterfowl migration here in the Valley ( Both North and South) as the
    landscape has changed with very little areas for nesting for our local birds . The once foothill regions where native grasses grew are being covered with
    nut trees or Windmills or houses ? Yeah , it's a shame to realize what's being left for our offspring and Grandchildren ? Most will be BS written in the
    history books by retired wealthy farmers biographies ! FWIW
     
  2. Green house

    Green house Senior Refuge Member

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    Boom and bust, it's coming. Either china will increased production or the conditions for growing so many almonds will end.
     
  3. Wood-Dro

    Wood-Dro Elite Refuge Member

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    I'm not saying you're incorrect. I'm just saying the picture looks photoshopped. I don't have much knowledge about this topic so I'm not going to even try and debate it. So if this was 1977, where's it at in 2021 as I would guess we've used even more water the in last 45 years v. the 50 in the pic.?
     
  4. Speckslayer

    Speckslayer Elite Refuge Member

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    Here are some facts about California's water supply and crop usage (data takes a while to compile so it's a couple years old but things haven't changed much).

    What happens to California's water supply.
    upload_2021-2-23_7-3-36.png

    Here is a chart of water usage by California's major crops. As you can see, alfalfa uses a LOT more water than almonds/pistachios both on a per acre basis and total usage. If you really want reduce water usage, shouldn't you go after the biggest user? Also, pasture and rice use essentially the same amount of water per acre as almonds. So if we pass a law to limit almond acres and those acres are instead used to grow rice, pasture, sugar beets, alfalfa, and/or tree fruit, we have done nothing to help our water supply.
    upload_2021-2-23_7-20-14.png

    Here is my source: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44093.pdf

    If you are truly a free market believer but also have concerns about the environment, then shouldn't we instead focus on how much water is needed for the environment, then let the farmers have the rest and let them decide what to grow on their own ground based on water availability, soil type, and market conditions?
     

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  5. Specialbelly

    Specialbelly Senior Refuge Member

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    Didn't know we had such brilliant economic and agricultural minds on here

    Even working in the nut industry its hard to grasp how much of this system works but its not all black and white. as far as water use goes, Almonds and rice in particular are reducing water inputs by the millions of acre feet with advancements in irrigation tech and plant breeding. Rice water doesn't have as high of an ET rate when the crop passes the water line, and being grown in heavy soils helps retain that water at the surface, with the remaining water percolating back into the ground water supply. This is all very basic overviews but its not as simple as "banning" a crop. Having better educated growers and agronomists and ecologists work together is a start on making better decisions for the future of CA agriculture.

    Also interesting to see people want to "ban" crops because it doesnt fit into what they see as a good use of someone elses land, not very free thinking there

    As to @Speckslayer last line in that post, who decides how much water to allocate to the environment? I'd obviously like to see water be put in places and utilized differently but understand that its not a viable use for a limited resource. Do you trust govt agencies to make that call?
     
  6. nsm1548

    nsm1548 Refuge Member

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    I appreciate you showing actual data and not just throwing out bs.

    I really am a free market believer but there are some cases, very few that I struggle with. California water use for almonds is one. The acreage at the moment may not be a issue but the potential it has to continue to grow substantially can be.

    What is bothersome is California grows 100% of US Almonds. That is not even close with corn, rice and alfalfa. Almonds seem to grow best in our climate which means barrier to entry is high.
    In my remarks above I mentioned water supply. I think the key would for some of the larger water users to put pressure on local,state and federal government to help pave the path for greater water storage in California. These large farming operations could push their lobbying dollars that way if it was signaled to them there could be heavier water regulations in the future.

    Free markets are great but when the burden of the worlds demand for a product falls on a almost singular area that can pose issues especially when that area has to deplete a finite resource to supply the worlds demand.

    California gets enough water, let’s store more and solve a problem that can be solved.
    What is ironic is regulation has made it harder to create water storage in California. Lots of regulation is overdone and not practical.

    Tariffs already exist, would be nice if that money went towards meaningful water storage.
     
  7. nsm1548

    nsm1548 Refuge Member

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    Also something to remember each year more and more of our ag land, food processing and other ag related companies are becoming foreign owned which means profits flow east.
     
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  8. chubby

    chubby Elite Refuge Member

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    I like it when the heavy weights get involved and clear things up.
     
  9. Speckslayer

    Speckslayer Elite Refuge Member

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    Totally agree. If we allow that control, what's next?

    Not really but you can't totally let the market decide because nature will lose out every time. If the "market" gets to choose who gets the water, farmers and cities can afford to buy every drop of water that flows under the Golden Gate. I don't like the government deciding but also don't think we should allow all the rivers/wetlands to dry up or subsidence to continue forever.
     
  10. RefugeHunter

    RefugeHunter Elite Refuge Member

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    Live - Castro Valley - work Pleasanton

    True dat.
     
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