Duck Hunters' Forum Sponsors

Thought provoking

Discussion in 'The Duck Hunters Forum' started by CAF, Mar 31, 2021.

  1. KENNEDY63

    KENNEDY63 Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    11,019
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Location:
    MINNESOTA
    Thanks. I appreciate your ability to engage in a constructive manner - refreshing (and, sadly, rare on this thread).

    I am familiar with the history of how we (i.e. America) got here. In America's infancy - access was not (for the most part) an issue, nor were game numbers. Furthermore, wild game was used in many areas as a dietary staple. However, as hunters became more efficient, and non-wild food sources became more secure - laws changed relative to the commercial and non-commercial taking of wild game. Many of those changes which serve as the foundation of today' laws were fought tooth and nail by the "well, we've never done it that way" crowd (thinking outside of the box must not be in the DNA of duck hunters - ha).

    Today, while game is "publicly owned" - the fact of the matter is that proposition is to a great degree worthless given the changing landscape in hunting (i.e. leasing, land access, etc.) - which, from a practical standpoint, has created a system that somewhat mirrors Europe. Yes, we can still access public lands - but if the lands are overhunted - why would many sportsmen bother? To somehow claim that our current model is one to be loved, remaining unchanged in the face of declining numbers, seems shortsighted. The duck hunting public is showing their thoughts on how the resource is presently being managed by voting with their pocketbooks, and spending their license dollars elsewhere, as numbers are down both in gross and as a percentage of the ovrall population.

    And while I agree with you somewhat relative to the "public" aspect - what the government giveth, the government can taketh away. While we contribute our dollars to the public trough (both forcibly through license fees, Pittman Robertson, etc. etc., and voluntarily via DU, Delta, etc.) - there is NO guarantee that:

    A. hunting will be allowed in the future;
    B. if allowed, hunting will be allowed on public lands acquired with the dollars of sportsmen; or
    C. access to public lands will not be restricted to the point of making hunting said lands.

    More food for thought.....
     
    Sam Ortmann likes this.
  2. hobbydog

    hobbydog Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    9,128
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Location:
    Minnesota
    They basically defend what is a pyramid scheme. Those at the top need more members to sustain the good thing they have going and lament shrinking numbers. Pyramid schemes always collapse only a matter of time. It is worthy to talk about doing something different. If not pay to play, what else is there. Open to new ideas.
     
    KENNEDY63 likes this.
  3. labrador

    labrador Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    290
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2002
    Location:
    South Dakota
    I will stipulate at the outset that correlation does not equal causation....

    However, does anyone intend to argue that we are in a better place since we started the big push for mentored/youth/kids everything seasons. Call me a miserable old curmudgeon if you will but I think we created more long term outdoorsmen and women the way things used to be. I remember growing up and very much looking forward to my 12th birthday. This meant I could sit for my hunter safety and begin to carry a gun. I read everything I could get my hands on related to hunting. Now kids are carried to $2500 deer blinds to shoot a custom rifle at a deer on a food plot. Most of these kids have no skin in the game. They need to want it. It is like welfare handouts in a way. Most of us didn't have this when we were kids and you would have to cut a leg off us to keep us out of the field.

    I know the mentor stuff will never go away I am just offering a different point of view as it pertains to whether this approach creates lifelong outdoorsmen compared to the "pay your dues approach".
     
    KENNEDY63 likes this.
  4. nobands

    nobands Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    1,255
    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Kid lives a few counties over from me . It would technically be part of the Prairie pothole region.
    Few are left , but after a heavy rain you can grasp what could have been.
    Water standing in all the lowspots ,big and small.
    2 days later it's all gone , one its way to the gulf.
     
    rhpierce likes this.
  5. WHUP ! Hen

    WHUP ! Hen Elite Refuge Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    6,156
    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Location:
    Northeast Missouri
    After reading these posts you can’t imagine how comforting it is me to own an 80 acre duck and goose paradise. If I had to tolerate the sheet you guys do I probably would not be hunting even as much as I enjoy it.
     
  6. riverrat47

    riverrat47 Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    3,100
    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2004
    Location:
    nw illinois
    Well, I grew up in a different era.
    First, while my Dad had hunted in the youth on the farm, he'd long pretty much hung it up, despite all his friends partaking. Our kitchen, being the gathering place, I somehow became enthralled with hunting/fishing stories emanating from the kitchen table. (I'd try to hide next to the stove as it got later in the evening, for fear of being discovered and sent to bed...or worse...to do homework!
    I was going for work days at the duck club by the time I was seven, even sitting a day or two in the blind during duck season...sans gun...maybe my Red Ryder. On work days, I drug semi-trailer sized load of brush to the blinds. Child labor laws were violated on a weekly basis by these masochists who had probably secretly run German Concentration camps, coming to the states and masquerading as US veterans. In reality, my biggest contribution to the work days was probably tending the cooler.
    No such thing as an age limit or hunter safety. My Dad and his friends took me out, when THEY determined I was safe...Hunter Safety was over. I may have been 9 +/- when I was cut loose...under loose supervision.
    By 11 or 12, we were riding our bikes to the country, knocking on doors, hoping to shoot a rabbit and maybe a pheasant, possibly shoot at a quail. If a place had a creek or pond...JACKPOT!!! Indeed, farms to work extra hard to cultivate a relationship.
    Leases. What? Those were something a county over where the real ducking went on. We rarely were denied permission. Deer? Food Plots? Deer Stands? Hell, Illinois had just opened a deer season in deep southern Illinois, after about a 50 year closure. Our 4x4s had two wheels. Our blind bag was our paper bag, which did double duty as our decoy bag. Our spread, as it were, consisted of maybe 5 or 6 may sinks. A Zebco was our well trained retriever.
    However, we didn't have to contend with leasing, 5000 channel TV, video games, the preponderance of the multitude of year-around sports programs, single parent families and the anti-gun/anti-hunting sentiment that exists in schools and society in this day and age.
    I grew up in an easy time to be junior outdoorsman. I feel that todays budding hunter needs all the boosts we can give them. IMHO, most programs fall short as they mentor for training, a hunt, maybe a few hunts in that season. Then, Adios, ENJOY. Good Luck.
    My way of thinking, the mentoring needs to continue till they are able to get out on their own. Just my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
  7. KENNEDY63

    KENNEDY63 Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    11,019
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Location:
    MINNESOTA
    Grew up in the same era. Different times they were.

    Should the mentoring be mandated/paid for by government via special days and special programs? Or should adult hunters, of their own volition, be willing to leave their guns in the trunk so that the mentored individuals can hunt/shoot? In my experience as one who has run youth only hunts on private property - it's tough to get the adults to head to the field unarmed.
     
  8. Sam Ortmann

    Sam Ortmann Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    759
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2020
    Location:
    NOLA/Missouri
    I too appreciate good conversation and try to keep everything reasonable and above the belt. Things tend to be more enjoyable that way.
    As for the state of American hunting vs European hunting and the commercialization and privatization of hunting and limited access, I don’t understand how your system would help any?
    I’ve never hunted across the pond, but from what I understand accessibility, affordability, and funding for wildlife are very different—and generally better here. We also turned away from commercial hunting practices and the privatized sale of wild game because it was detrimental to animal populations. I can’t understand how modeling our conservation programs after the European one—which is more expensive, less accessible, and gets less funding than our current one—and a reversion to the commercialization of wild game is good for hunting.
    And I just have philosophical problems with the government selling publicly owned goods to us in a commercial consumptive fashion.
     
  9. Sam Ortmann

    Sam Ortmann Senior Refuge Member

    Messages:
    759
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2020
    Location:
    NOLA/Missouri
    I also don’t understand the hate for youth weekend. It’s one weekend out of the year where maybe a couple thousand kids across the whole country go out and shoot a couple birds on a weekend that’s not even part of the regular season. They’re eleven. Why do people have to let a nice action for a couple children who don’t even have a significant impact on harvest numbers or regular season days hunted get them all riled up?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2021
    Ruination likes this.
  10. Native NV Ducker

    Native NV Ducker Mod-Duck Hunters Forum, Classifieds, and 2 others Moderator

    Messages:
    24,214
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2003
    Location:
    Sula, MT
    Having taken several youths on their first waterfowl hunts, I would give up an entire week for the Youth Weekend.

    The young man I have been taking the last couple of years talks about it constantly. He keeps checking that we are going again next year. This year will be his last as a youth.
     

Share This Page