Thought provoking

Holesinthesky

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You must really want to see hunter numbers bottom out in a hurry. Nobody is going to waste money on a regular license and a $25 stamp per day to MAYBE have a chance at a bird on public land. That will kill waterfowl hunting faster than loss of access. Just wow.....:doh

that was my point.
In response to Kennedy.


I agree with you 100%.
The sarcasm was lost in type.
 

KENNEDY63

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How so? You are paying for improvement to the habitat, not eating ducks. Lots of guys buy extra stamps to help improve the habitat. If lookyloos want to enjoy that habitat, they should pitch in, not ride the coat tails of the waterfowlers who are paying the freight.

We are talking duck hunting and duck hunters - so yes, it is a completely different animal when comparing consumptive users to non-consumptive users. But I do agree - a one size fits all pass to use federal refuges should be applied to both consumptive and non-consumptive users.


Apples and alligators analogy.

IMO - it's an apples to apples anology - you consume, you pay for what you consume.

I had a program where you could pre-pay for your drinks, and as you used them, I would mark them off. You were Guaranteed to get those drinks. Not so in waterfowling.

A tag system would be similar - buy x number of tags, use the tags as birds are harvested.

So, I buy a stamp, and get, what, 50 tags? 100? Different for different flyways? Same price in each flyway? Can I use the tags in different flyways? What about the guy that just goes on the opener? He 'now' knows that he is being jacked around, because he is paying for 50/100 birds, but he is only able to go on the opener.

Are we gonna give a rebate if you send the unused tags back in? Why not? I paid for 50 birds, but only got 10. I want my money back for the 40 birds I didn't get.

It's a big bag of bats. You what to know what is in the bottom of the bag after a day? It's crazy, like this idea.

I would probably go with 1 or 2 possession limits - then a new set of tags.

And, what do either of those articles have to do with your idea?

Sam opined that as price went up, hunter participation would decrease - hence the article on the facts relative to stamps purchased as prices increased (stamp purchases actually increased slightly). The second article was posted for future discussions in this thread relative to having the presently estimated harvest figures and actual hunter numbers. Might come in handy later......

See responses in bold.

In Iowa, a tagging system was used for non-resident pheasant hunters in the 70's and (I believe) 80's. As far as I know, Sask still uses leg tags for huns and sharpies. Most (if not all) states reuire big game tagging. The system is in no way unprecedented.
 

Native NV Ducker

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In Iowa, a tagging system was used for non-resident pheasant hunters in the 70's and (I believe) 80's.
Why was that? Were the birds being over-harvested? Are the ducks?

As far as I know, Sask still uses leg tags for huns and sharpies.
That is a limit. 8 birds. Can't be re-filled, like in your system.

Most (if not all) states reuire big game tagging.
Limit is one. Proves who, and when it was taken. Comparing big game to waterfowl is absurd.
 

Neighbor Guy

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Last I checked we had tagging laws on the books now that next to nobody follows and the state wardens don’t even know about.

We also have laws about keeping birds separate, but based on photos here and on that face page the piles are all the rage. “Who shot that mallard with the band?” “...we drew for it and Steve got it, cause we all shot...”

Enforcement nightmare....

Just like early goose seasons with extra limits. I know many a guy who never shot a goose after the early season ended. At least that’s what the packages in his freezer said. 3-daily limits of 5 per license holder in the house is a lot more than the regular season limits of 3.

I would also like to know where these magic harvest numbers come from? Were you surveyed? Because I wasn’t. Did my birds get counted? You don’t even know how many days I hunted let alone my harvest data. You can’t get an honest answer out of anyone in real numbers anyways.
 

FriedPotatoes

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Where are guides and outfitters not subject to tax laws?

I don’t know, maybe they are, my understanding is they’re not but maybe it’s a state thing. I was just responding to the guy who said something about duck welfare.
 

BigSkyDuk

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I will go along with that, as soon as every person who visits a State or Federal Refuge has to purchase a duck stamp also.
Then every anti who happens to enjoy walking his dog on the local state or federal refuge will start to think he gets a vote, and their first initiative will be to ban hunting.

There are more non-hunters than hunters; always have been. There have not always been so many anti-hunters, but their ranks are growing. Politics is downstream from culture, and policy is downstream from politics. Recruitment and retention of hunters, or at the very least improving the image of hunters and hunting in the eyes of non-hunters is the only thing standing between us and a culture that elects politicians who ban hunting. If I’ve got to bump into an extra hunter or two in the field to promote a hunting positive culture in this country that’s worth it, because the fast approaching alternative is no hunting for anyone.
 

KENNEDY63

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KENNEDY63

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Why was that? Were the birds being over-harvested? Are the ducks?

I don't believe that the birds were overharvested - but at the time, there were oodles on NR's piling into the state and shooting oodles of roosters. I hated the tags - but paid to play because I loved killing pheasants. The more I took, the more I paid. Seems awfully fair to me.

That is a limit. 8 birds. Can't be re-filled, like in your system.

Yep - that's what I thought. So they still have it.

Limit is one. Proves who, and when it was taken. Comparing big game to waterfowl is absurd.

Actually - that depends upon what area and species you are hunting. In Minnesota (as an example), depending on the year, you can shoot multiple deer - with each dead deer requiring a tag.

More food for thought.

I like this thread.........
 

KENNEDY63

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Then every anti who happens to enjoy walking his dog on the local state or federal refuge will start to think he gets a vote, and their first initiative will be to ban hunting.

There are more non-hunters than hunters; always have been. There have not always been so many anti-hunters, but their ranks are growing. Politics is downstream from culture, and policy is downstream from politics. Recruitment and retention of hunters, or at the very least improving the image of hunters and hunting in the eyes of non-hunters is the only thing standing between us and a culture that elects politicians who ban hunting. If I’ve got to bump into an extra hunter or two in the field to promote a hunting positive culture in this country that’s worth it, because the fast approaching alternative is no hunting for anyone.

Great point(s)......
 

KENNEDY63

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Last I checked we had tagging laws on the books now that next to nobody follows and the state wardens don’t even know about.

We also have laws about keeping birds separate, but based on photos here and on that face page the piles are all the rage. “Who shot that mallard with the band?” “...we drew for it and Steve got it, cause we all shot...”

Enforcement nightmare....

Just like early goose seasons with extra limits. I know many a guy who never shot a goose after the early season ended. At least that’s what the packages in his freezer said. 3-daily limits of 5 per license holder in the house is a lot more than the regular season limits of 3.

I would also like to know where these magic harvest numbers come from? Were you surveyed? Because I wasn’t. Did my birds get counted? You don’t even know how many days I hunted let alone my harvest data. You can’t get an honest answer out of anyone in real numbers anyways.

I'm not so sure that it would be an enforcement nightmare. Most bird tags that I have seen have a serial number that ties back to the license/stamp.

Would there be some cheating? Sure. Would it exceed the amount that exists now? Doubt it.

As to harvest data, a tagging system would certainly add more certainty to the overall "harvest estimates".

Anywho - at the end of the day, the best "recruitment tools" for duck hunting are birds in the sky and the opportunity to shoot the same. If the "casual hunter" can't see and shoot at ducks - they will be a casual hunter no more, and their dollars (as well as their vote on hunting issues) will disappear. The word "habitat" has been drummed into our heads for decades is "habitat ", and every public and private waterfowl related organization says that our duck related habitat is woefully inadequate. Makes sense to me that those who take the most should be more than willing to pay for the taking - whch brings me right back to the coffee shop analogy, where you pay for each cup of Joe.
 

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