Ukraine off topic rants

[Sunklands]

Alot of the old hands on here don’t get involved in these and other threads much anymore, for the simple fact that there’s some ego’s(idiots), on here that can’t ever be wrong. No reason for some of the most practical and insightful folks to try and hash it out with fools.

 

[WidgeonmanGH]

Would the US consider a foreign force (military and special operators) who are actively trying to balkanize your country and change your political leadership an existential threat?

 

[Steelshot Scott]

Would the US consider a foreign force (military and special operators) who are actively trying to balkanize your country and change your political leadership an existential threat?

You mean by actively invading your country?

Or, are you actually making the argument that preparing to defend yourself against a enemy that has stated repeatedly that he intends to absorb your country is provocative? Everytime I make this statement, you ask for references. I provide them. You ask for them again. I provide them. They are well established, I am not posting up references again just so you can jerk me around.

You should change your avatar. I have one for you:

It is a perfect example of allowing a tyrant to go unchecked.


And after all, Chamberlain promised peace instead of war, all they had to do was to stay out of Hitler's way.

 

[WidgeonmanGH]

Haven't you stated that the US goal in this was to degrade our enemy Russia? Why would NATO expand to continue to add more and more countries? Is the "Russian threat" growing since the breakup of the Soviet Union? I thought they were paper tigers that didn't pose a threat?

I think it is interesting that CHINA is offering a peace initiative and the US is not. I also thought it was funny that the US warned China not to escalate the war by giving military aid to Russia. They (Chinese) rightly said we were hypocrites and sited our giving military aid and assistance to Taiwan.

Notice how your examples and pictures are black and white. Interesting. Maybe it is because your way of thinking is still stuck in that era. Do you believe we facing a situation where Russia is trying to take over Europe? You think this is that?

We destabilized Ukraine, fomented a coup which caused separatists and a civil war with ethnic Russians on one side and corrupt Ukrainians on the other then pretending to try and create peace we actually just stalled so we could pour weapons into Ukraine. Slightly different conditions than 1930's yea?

Let's return to the glory days of the USA where we were the saviors of the world in WW2. Nice thinking but we are not that America anymore and haven't been for a long time. Putin is not Hitler. On the one hand you suggest that we are these noble righteous warriors. On the other you look at the Biden administration, and you support that? You realize the same people are in charge right? So you are making the argument that they got this one right?

Are you going to become a democrat when the Republican house pulls the plug on the Ukrainian money/weapons flow? Will you become a liberal when the conservative voices wanting to get us out of forever war and the policemen of the world gain political traction?

Early on In this conflict I suggested that the way this was going to end up was a negotiated settlement giving up the Donbas regions and Ukraine being more neutral. Exactly China's proposal and Zman is scheduling a meeting with Xi.

Lawmakers are quietly saying, Ukraine can not take back its territory and needs to think about some sort of agreement. But of course such comments are ignored for more music video kill shots. What happens when Russia starts getting supplied by China?

 

[Steelshot Scott]

Haven't you stated that the US goal in this was to degrade our enemy Russia? Why would NATO expand to continue to add more and more countries? Is the "Russian threat" growing since the breakup of the Soviet Union? I thought they were paper tigers that didn't pose a threat?

I think it is interesting that CHINA is offering a peace initiative and the US is not. I also thought it was funny that the US warned China not to escalate the war by giving military aid to Russia. They (Chinese) rightly said we were hypocrites and sited our giving military aid and assistance to Taiwan.

Notice how your examples and pictures are black and white. Interesting. Maybe it is because your way of thinking is still stuck in that era. Do you believe we facing a situation where Russia is trying to take over Europe? You think this is that?

We destabilized Ukraine, fomented a coup which caused separatists and a civil war with ethnic Russians on one side and corrupt Ukrainians on the other then pretending to try and create peace we actually just stalled so we could pour weapons into Ukraine. Slightly different conditions than 1930's yea?

Let's return to the glory days of the USA where we were the saviors of the world in WW2. Nice thinking but we are not that America anymore and haven't been for a long time. Putin is not Hitler. On the one hand you suggest that we are these noble righteous warriors. On the other you look at the Biden administration, and you support that? You realize the same people are in charge right? So you are making the argument that they got this one right?

Are you going to become a democrat when the Republican house pulls the plug on the Ukrainian money/weapons flow? Will you become a liberal when the conservative voices wanting to get us out of forever war and the policemen of the world gain political traction?

Early on In this conflict I suggested that the way this was going to end up was a negotiated settlement giving up the Donbas regions and Ukraine being more neutral. Exactly China's proposal and Zman is scheduling a meeting with Xi.

Lawmakers are quietly saying, Ukraine can not take back its territory and needs to think about some sort of agreement. But of course such comments are ignored for more music video kill shots. What happens when Russia starts getting supplied by China?

Yes, our goal is to degrade Russia.

Why would NATO seek to expand to more countries? Well, these countries were being enslaved by Russia before gaining independence. Russia seeks to re-enslave these countries. These countries are afraid. They want protection. Enter NATO. That is why NATO was created........duh.

Yes, China is offering peace, if Russia gets to keep what it still occupies. That is no deal. Again, let me remind you:

Remember what appeasement gets you with tyrants.

My position is not black and white. It is reality vs fiction. That is why there is such a contrast and none of your predictions come true.


The part about us destabilizing Ukraine is straight from Russell Brand's podcast. It is so stupid that it doesn't interest me enough to answer it.

Yes, you support Ukraine just giving up it's territory everytime Russia decides to expand.

Again let me remind you what happens:

The only people saying that Ukraine can't take back it's territories are the same people that have been demanding Ukraine surrender since day 3 of the war.

I am sorry, but you have been wrong in every assertion that you have made. Every prediction has failed to materialize. Each new offensive never happens, each new wonder weapon the Russians have fails to gain any advantage.

Yet you cling to your failed narrative.

 

[WidgeonmanGH]

A man fell off a 26 story building and was asked how it was going at about floor 13. He said so far so good.

While you like to pat yourself on the back thinking all the "predictions" are wrong an a failed narrative. The war is not over yet so the answer continues to be we will see.

Since you like black and white photos. Maybe this one will remind you of how different the world is. Maybe you will remember that we trained him and gave him weapons, which ultimately did not turn out so good when we failed to help them throw off the french.

Agents of the OSS, the Office of Strategic Services — the precursor to the CIA — were parachuted into the jungles of North Vietnam in early 1945 to make contact with him; in fact, a US medic helped nurse him back to health from dysentery and malaria.

The initial US intelligence assessment of Ho Chi Minh was that he was more nationalist than communist and was an acceptable partner. So, the US provided him with weapons and training teams to help teach his Viet Minh guerrillas how to fight.

Or maybe other fun things like when we trained and supported the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, that turned out great too. Or maybe the failed attempt in Venezuela where we supported a president who wasn't and tried to black out their country, but it failed and the media said it was because they did not maintain their infrastructure. lol. Interventionism has a history too.

While it is easily obvious to go back and look at examples where the facts are known. We are currently flying on only partial facts.

You do not think the Obama administration with Hillary at the helm of the State Department had anything to do with the coup in Ukraine in 2012. I do not understand how you can hold that position being a rational human being. hmmm...

Just a reminder of a question you avoided

Are you going to become a democrat when the Republican house pulls the plug on the Ukrainian money/weapons flow? Will you become a liberal when the conservative voices wanting to get us out of forever war and the policemen of the world gain political traction?

One undisputable thing this US sponsored war has done is create a very close alliance between China and Russia and Iran. Wouldn't it be interesting if the ultimate result is a military alliance with their own version of an Article 5 protections between the three? Who has more clout and gravitas to create peace USA or China?

What if China offers Russia a deal where they cease hostilities and get to keep Crimea and a buffer of the Donbas area in exchange for article 5 type protections and aliance from China? Ukraine (who has been shelling the donbass since 2012 anyway) gets a cease fire and enjoy its enslavement by the IMF and world bank and all the US weapons it wants? If Russia took that deal wouldn't that insure empire USA going the way of the British empire?

 

[Steelshot Scott]

A man fell off a 26 story building and was asked how it was going at about floor 13. He said so far so good.

While you like to pat yourself on the back thinking all the "predictions" are wrong an a failed narrative. The war is not over yet so the answer continues to be we will see.

Since you like black and white photos. Maybe this one will remind you of how different the world is. Maybe you will remember that we trained him and gave him weapons, which ultimately did not turn out so good when we failed to help them throw off the french.


View attachment 379010



Or maybe other fun things like when we trained and supported the Mujahideen in Afghanistan, that turned out great too. Or maybe the failed attempt in Venezuela where we supported a president who wasn't and tried to black out their country, but it failed and the media said it was because they did not maintain their infrastructure. lol. Interventionism has a history too.

While it is easily obvious to go back and look at examples where the facts are known. We are currently flying on only partial facts.

You do not think the Obama administration with Hillary at the helm of the State Department had anything to do with the coup in Ukraine in 2012. I do not understand how you can hold that position being a rational human being. hmmm...

Just a reminder of a question you avoided


One undisputable thing this US sponsored war has done is create a very close alliance between China and Russia and Iran. Wouldn't it be interesting if the ultimate result is a military alliance with their own version of an Article 5 protections between the three? Who has more clout and gravitas to create peace USA or China?

Yes, and he didn't surrender.

You make my points for me.



P.S. We didn't make the alliance between Russia/China/Iran supporting Ukraine.

They have been allies a long time. You just haven't been paying attention.

 

[WidgeonmanGH]

Who didn't surrender? Do you mean Ho Chi Mihn? Pretty sure N.Veitnam won and we are now trading with them.

They have been allies a long time. You just haven't been paying attention.

Friends of opportunity vs. a formal NATO style agreement is much different as evidenced by Ukraine.

 

[WidgeonmanGH]

I added this to my other post because I thought no one had yet replied.

I repost it as a result

What if China offers Russia a deal where they cease hostilities and get to keep Crimea and a buffer of the Donbas area in exchange for article 5 type protections and aliance from China? Ukraine (who has been shelling the donbass since 2012 anyway) gets a cease fire and enjoy its enslavement by the IMF and world bank and all the US weapons it wants? If Russia took that deal wouldn't that insure empire USA going the way of the British empire?

Ukraine is not in the drivers seat on peace (no matter what Braindead says) the US is. We pull the plug tomorrow if we want. They will seek peace when we tell them too. They cannot fight without us. Russia has no reason to sue for peace. So China brokering a deal would be a HUGE geopolitical win and insure that we do nothing about Taiwan.

 

[OneShotBandit]

So, Yellen says that "we" will give "them" 1.2 BILLION dollars (for CILVIAN aid) out of a 12-BILLION-dollar "package? W T F? SSS, DW et.al. THIS ain't getting any funnier! THIS CHIT MUST STOP!!!!! As I posted a few days ago a lot (47% +/- HuffPuff I believe) Republicans & Libertarian conservative brethren are not on-board w/this BS! PLEASE answer me this: Why are the Dummycrats & Liberal Libertarians pushing for a war w/the Ruskies when in fact the Chinese are the ENEMY to be more concerned about. Will you all have the same feelings when the Ch*nks invade Taiwan and/or Japan? Sorry guys but this fires me up-Triggered?