Ukraine

WidgeonmanGH

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I think (and have thought) that this is the most likely outcome of this war. With these territories becoming Russia proper. You cannot ignore people who chose not to leave when Russia invaded, speak Russian, are ethnically Russian, endured Ukraine passing laws that discriminate against speaking Russian etc. lost up to 14,000 people in the localized civil war, standing in line to vote in favor in spite of it being made a crime to participate. Of course, our media will say it is a sham and propaganda but you have to look at the voting patterns of these regions (over the last decade) to see that such a description is an exaggeration.

ukrainerefmap.jpg
 

Bear

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News is saying that there is a huge traffic jam of people leaving Russia for Finland.

IMOO
 

Bear

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I’m surprised the Finn’s would let them in. No more so, than Poland would.
Finland’s NATO application may have something to do with that? :scratch
 

grahler

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Thats fair, I try to be respectful of those who show it, thats how I was raised. I personally do not think a guy who was deployed to Afghanistan and learned he had a terminal cancer has much to gain by being a independent journalist while being a charlatan, especially when hes been doing it for awhile. I never said he was actively fighting against the russians though to be fair. Scott is snarky although I feel he makes valid points too, I couldve taken the high road, and didnt, ill own that.
Fair enough. Sorry to pick at ya so bad.
 

Steelshot Scott

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I think (and have thought) that this is the most likely outcome of this war. With these territories becoming Russia proper. You cannot ignore people who chose not to leave when Russia invaded, speak Russian, are ethnically Russian, endured Ukraine passing laws that discriminate against speaking Russian etc. lost up to 14,000 people in the localized civil war, standing in line to vote in favor in spite of it being made a crime to participate. Of course, our media will say it is a sham and propaganda but you have to look at the voting patterns of these regions (over the last decade) to see that such a description is an exaggeration.

View attachment 357390
Should we return Texas to Mexico for the same reason?
 

3B209

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Fair enough. Sorry to pick at ya so bad.
Not at all, it was fair and delivered with class and I appreciate that. My father is having health issues and Im likely more wound up than normal, although that is no excuse. Was going to message you and thank you for your honesty and not being a jerk about it.
 

Damian Wiening

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The current government of Russia will not be able to lose and stay in power. Which means there is nothing left for them if they lose. If you have nothing to lose you lose it. Putin may go out in a blaze of glory, but I am not sure that is the desired outcome.

Here is a quote from one of the Russian right wingers that is pushing Putin.

"The whole world should be praying for Russia's victory, because there are only two ways this can end: either Russia wins, or a nuclear apocalypse," nationalist Russian tycoon Konstantin Malofeyev tells the Financial Times. "If we don't win, we will have to use nuclear weapons, because we can't lose," he added. "Does anyone really think Russia will accept defeat and not use its nuclear arsenal?"

We can say it is empty threats, but is it? It is not as simple as saying Russia invaded. Ukraine was in a civil war and some of the people of that territory (Donbass etc) want to be with Russia. Whether it is a majority etc. who knows. But they wanted it enough to fight for it for 8 years before Russia upped the ante. The Ukrainians with US arms and training may well be able to push Russia out, but that might just trigger the unthinkable.

How do you deal with a bully? The answer in the world is I depends if they have nukes. N. Korea can shoot missiles over Japan and we do nothing. It is no wonder Iran wants nukes. It changes the equation. Russia is in the wrong. Russia miscalculated. Russia is even losing, but it does not change the fact that Russia has nukes. I would not want to live in Kiev if it becomes obvious that Russia is going to lose.

The USSR fell and no nukes were used, russian speakers on Ukraine land better adapt or leave, they don't get to push Ukraine around anymore, russia agreed to the border with Ukraine and signed off on it getting the the canned sunshine that was in Ukraine.

Leaving behind the ability to payback russia for The Holodomor might not have worked out for them, they agreed to terms to get the weapons and then broke them, their word has no meaning including the threat to pop sunshine.

Poland and Japan are going to manufacture their own nuclear weapons along with a bunch more not so good players because having them works when you commit attacks against those that don't have them, nations are going to protect themselves against this type of aggression.

Let russia bark and kill their future, that's what they are doing.
 

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