We have more that unites us than divides us

[The_Duck_Master]

There have been a few recent threads here where there has been considerable emphasis placed on the divisions among us.

I came across this speech from Dr. Peter Kreeft on why he converted to Catholicism. I am sharing this not to proselytize but to highlight what he has to say about the misunderstood differences regarding faith and works (we're both right just using different meanings of the words) and his insight that most of us here have more in common with each other than we do with many in our own denominations.

It is an hour long but I think it's worth the time.

 

[Quantrill]

@The_Duck_Master

You tell me 'what' unites us?

You tell me, why does God want to divide fallen man and yet man wants to unite? (Gen. 11:1-9) (Luke 12:49-53)

Quantrill

 

[The_Duck_Master]

@The_Duck_Master

You tell me 'what' unites us?

You tell me, why does God want to divide fallen man and yet man wants to unite? (Gen. 11:1-9) (Luke 12:49-53)

Quantrill

God does not WANT to divide his creation. Wanting division would be contrary to the nature of God as creator. Those passages reflect the natural effect of sin that causes US to cause that division. It is our sin that divides us from him and each other. When Jesus said he came to divide, he didn't mean that was what he wanted to occur, just that the nature of man would make that happen.

 

[molliesmaster]

Thanks for post @The_Duck_Master I've added the video to my watchlist.

*dontfeedthetroll

 

[Quantrill]

God does not WANT to divide his creation. Wanting division would be contrary to the nature of God as creator. Those passages reflect the natural effect of sin that causes US to cause that division. It is our sin that divides us from him and each other. When Jesus said he came to divide, he didn't mean that was what he wanted to occur, just that the nature of man would make that happen.

You didn't anwswer my questions.

What unites us?

The passages I presented reflect that God wants to divide. Not that man wants to divide. (Gen. 11:1-9) (Luke 12:49-53)

God and Jesus were clear. You want to twist the Scripture to fit your political opinion. Shame on you.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Thanks for post @The_Duck_Master I've added the video to my watchlist.

*dontfeedthetroll

Aww...such a good follower and slave. Did he pat you on the head? Make your ears tingle?

Good grief.

Quantrill

 

[The_Duck_Master]

You didn't anwswer my questions.

What unites us?

The passages I presented reflect that God wants to divide. Not that man wants to divide. (Gen. 11:1-9) (Luke 12:49-53)

God and Jesus were clear. You want to twist the Scripture to fit your political opinion. Shame on you.

Quantrill

I think I understand where you are coming from for the wheat will be separated from the chaff but don't equate God wanting the good that will come from that separation with God wanting the separation, itself. Much like God did not create evil, God does not want division. He will use man's potential for it to accomplish his greater glory but only because fallen man chooses to take that course. If God wants division it is only in the same way a baker wants a hole in a donut.

 

[Quantrill]

I think I understand where you are coming from for the wheat will be separated from the chaff but don't equate God wanting the good that will come from that separation with God wanting the separation, itself. Much like God did not create evil, God does not want division. He will use man's potential for it to accomplish his greater glory but only because fallen man chooses to take that course. If God wants division it is only in the same way a baker wants a hole in a donut.

The separation of the wheat and chaff is a division...a separation.

The separation, because it is of God, is good. The separation is not evil.

No. God does want that division. That is why he created it. (Gen. 11:1-9) (Luke 12:49-53)

It doesn't matter why 'God wants division'. Because He wants it, it is good.

Just like with fallen man. He glories in 'unity'. He calls it good. He calls 'division' evil. Contrary to what God has said and done. Just because fallen man calls it good, doesn't mean it's good. Fallen man wants to unite around himself. Not God. Unity with diversity is fallen mans god.

Consider this: From Adam to Noah, the world was united. One speech. One people. And fallen man multiplied. But, wickedness and evil multiplied with them. After the flood, God set divisions throughout the earth. (Gen. 10:5) (Gen. 10:25) (Gen. 11:1-9) (Gen. 12:1-3)

Why did He set those divisions? Because they are necessary to curb the rate of growth of wickedness. It doesn't stop it, but it slows it down.

When man is unified around God and Christ, that is good. But in this world, that aint going to happen. Thus God sends division. And unity of fallen man, is not of God.

Quantrill

 

[The_Duck_Master]

When man is unified around God and Christ, that is good. But in this world, that aint going to happen. Thus God sends division. And unity of fallen man, is not of God.

Quantrill

Just as there is a difference between the hole and the donut there is a difference between God willing something and God wanting something. God does not want sin/evil/division/pain/suffering/death any more than he wanted Lucifer to rebel, Cain to kill able or man to fall.

 

[Quantrill]

Just as there is a difference between the hole and the donut there is a difference between God willing something and God wanting something. God does not want sin/evil/division/pain/suffering/death any more than he wanted Lucifer to rebel, Cain to kill able or man to fall.

Well, you can say that all you want. But I have showed you Scripture that says otherwise. Your donut and hole doesn't change Scripture.

God divided because He willed and wanted to. Here's some more verses. (Deut. 32:8) "When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated, the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel."

Concerning the division of Israel and Judah God sent the prophet to the King of Israel and said, (1 Kings 12:24), "Thus saith the LORD, ye shall not go up, nor fight against your brethren the children of Israel: return every man to his house; for this thing is from me...."

Your inclusion of division with sin and evil is not true. When God divides, it is good.

Quantrill