JP
Elite Refuge Member
When Small Is Better
With the advent of modern shotshell technologies and new payload materials, sub-gauge shotguns are coming into their own.
Whadya Think?
- Thread starter JP
- Start date
Tuleman
Elite Refuge Member
If the shooter can justify the increased costs of Tungsten loads (I can't put bismuth into the same category as Heavier-than-lead shot), then the smaller gauges can be very effective.
Of course, a 1oz load of TSS shot out of a 20 gage will never be as effective as a 1.5oz load of TSS shot out of a 12 gage, but then, just how "effective" does a load have to be for the majority of us?
(What is the advantage, after all, of shooting a load of TSS in a 20 gage if you can equal its performance with a steel load out of a 12 or 10 gage?)
Is smaller (gage) better? Better than what? Is a 20 better than a 12 all else equal? Of course not, but it may be good enough.
Hope to see you in a marsh THIS year, JP. ....and bring that 20 gage. You may be able to get me to cross the aisle.
Of course, a 1oz load of TSS shot out of a 20 gage will never be as effective as a 1.5oz load of TSS shot out of a 12 gage, but then, just how "effective" does a load have to be for the majority of us?
(What is the advantage, after all, of shooting a load of TSS in a 20 gage if you can equal its performance with a steel load out of a 12 or 10 gage?)
Is smaller (gage) better? Better than what? Is a 20 better than a 12 all else equal? Of course not, but it may be good enough.
Hope to see you in a marsh THIS year, JP. ....and bring that 20 gage. You may be able to get me to cross the aisle.
Dr Swane
Elite Refuge Member
I have made similar references and conclusions to this over the past few years.
Guys buying .410 shotguns for turkey will want to shoot more .410 for a variety of reasons or uses. That will push other gauges as well.
I asked some of the boutique “factory” ammo guys if they would also focus on a more affordable (less than $8/round) waterfowl option for subgauge guys who don’t reload. No one was really too keen on that market when I asked. I know guys on here and other forums have searched for options for .410 and 28 for a variety of reasons. Boss and RST (I don’t know if Backridge is still making subgauge shells) offer one option, but guys like a variety of choices.
Maybe the interest in the subgauge will push the ammo industry to offer more variety in steel, duplexed, Bismuth, and HTL options.
www.backridgeammunition.com
Guys buying .410 shotguns for turkey will want to shoot more .410 for a variety of reasons or uses. That will push other gauges as well.
I asked some of the boutique “factory” ammo guys if they would also focus on a more affordable (less than $8/round) waterfowl option for subgauge guys who don’t reload. No one was really too keen on that market when I asked. I know guys on here and other forums have searched for options for .410 and 28 for a variety of reasons. Boss and RST (I don’t know if Backridge is still making subgauge shells) offer one option, but guys like a variety of choices.
Maybe the interest in the subgauge will push the ammo industry to offer more variety in steel, duplexed, Bismuth, and HTL options.
28 Gauge
www.backridgeammunition.com
Dr Duk
Elite Refuge Member
10 ga rules!!
JP
Elite Refuge Member
T,
I will let you torch off one of my (factory load) HW-15 in 3 1/2" 12 gauge and then shoot one of my 20 gauge 1 ounce hand load in HW-15. Once the concussion subsides, I believe you'll note the distinctions.
Killing mallards at 80 yards with the 20 gauge handload after shooting them at 30 and then 40 with steel and then bismuth. loaded in front makes for a great recipe for a shooting experience that has a high degree of efficacy and pleasure.
I will bring the SBE III (20 gauge) with me this year and those loads. You'll be looking for a 20 gauge A400 shortty thereafter if you don't have one already!
I still shoot the 12's & 10's but they've become the boutique guns and are no longer the staple gauges.
I will let you torch off one of my (factory load) HW-15 in 3 1/2" 12 gauge and then shoot one of my 20 gauge 1 ounce hand load in HW-15. Once the concussion subsides, I believe you'll note the distinctions.
Killing mallards at 80 yards with the 20 gauge handload after shooting them at 30 and then 40 with steel and then bismuth. loaded in front makes for a great recipe for a shooting experience that has a high degree of efficacy and pleasure.
I will bring the SBE III (20 gauge) with me this year and those loads. You'll be looking for a 20 gauge A400 shortty thereafter if you don't have one already!
I still shoot the 12's & 10's but they've become the boutique guns and are no longer the staple gauges.
duckbuster5901
Elite Refuge Member
Love the attention the sub gauges are getting ammo wise. Great to be able to get the smaller gauges out of the cabinet and put them to work without fear of creating cripples occasionally. For past several years i,ve just used my 20,s to shoot doves and then woodies/teal early in the season. Once goose overlapped i,d go with the 12 and 20 went back in the cabinet. New loads let me get some more enjoyment out of shooting those 20,s.
Billy hill
Senior Refuge Member
If ammo or wad manufacturers would make 12 ga. wads for heavier than lead shot/harder than, then the sub gage would go by the wayside. Semi autos in 12 have been pushed to handle the hardest recoiling shells because of steel. 1/2 ounce of tss won't cycle in any 12 auto reliably but it would be an awesome shell. I would boast that I have the most comfortable/ effective shell gun combo there is. 12 ga maxus with a sealed piston and reduced weight recoil spring. Shells at 1oz, 1300fps. Anything but steel
JP
Elite Refuge Member
BPI & PR both sell shotcups (wads) that handle HTL pellets. I load one (1) ounce of HW-15 in a 2 3/4" hull with 32 grains of STEEL powder and it pushes it at ~1425FPS which cycles it in the Maxus, SBE & VERSAMAX. TSS in 1/2 ounce would likely work as well at that velocity.
Jim Atlas
Senior Refuge Member
I'm sure you could get 1/2 oz to work in a 12 ga. It just would take a bit of time to find the right combo. But I'll wager most, if not all, of us would stop before we got there.
Ravenanme
Elite Refuge Member
Well , we seem to be getting wiser with what we need to kill a Duck but the marketing people keep trying to shove loads down our throats ?
There's probably LESS than 5% of the shooters out there , who can hit a bird more than twice out of TEN Shots , passed 65 yds , so , those
who fall for this type of payload are playing games with excess money . If the truth be told , birds killed with Tungsten , are shot inside of 50 yds
which shows it's VERY deadly ! An easy way to justify it's cost is , like going to the Fair paying you money to knock the milk bottle down with a
stuffed beanbag ! Those who succeed are winners until they try again .
HTL loads who have smaller sizes of shot do have their place and in smaller bored guns , they allow little guns compete with Big ones , but ,
it's still a fact when shooting at a flying target , "Pattern Density rules the sky" and for those 5%'ers who have money to burn , it helps those
magazine writer's keep their jobs !
There's probably LESS than 5% of the shooters out there , who can hit a bird more than twice out of TEN Shots , passed 65 yds , so , those
who fall for this type of payload are playing games with excess money . If the truth be told , birds killed with Tungsten , are shot inside of 50 yds
which shows it's VERY deadly ! An easy way to justify it's cost is , like going to the Fair paying you money to knock the milk bottle down with a
stuffed beanbag ! Those who succeed are winners until they try again .
HTL loads who have smaller sizes of shot do have their place and in smaller bored guns , they allow little guns compete with Big ones , but ,
it's still a fact when shooting at a flying target , "Pattern Density rules the sky" and for those 5%'ers who have money to burn , it helps those
magazine writer's keep their jobs !
